[erlang-questions] ANN: Designing for Scalability with Erlang/OTP by O'Reilly

Tue Jul 8 21:49:10 CEST 2014

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@REDACTED>
wrote:

> Likewise.  Kickstarter or Indiegogo seems like a much better model for the
> writing period.  Or maybe these guys: www.patreon.com - interesting model
> for writers, musicians, and such - instead of funding a project, you
> subscribe to a person - at $x/chapter or /song.
>
>
The problem is not financing the writing of the book - it's all the other
stuff.

A decent book needs:

   - an good technical editor
   - a copy editor
   - layout/typography
   - marketing
   - etc.

Now while the author of a book will do this as a labour of love and is
just happy if the book gets read the editors and so on actually want to get
paid for their work - seen from O'Reillys POV any Erlang book is pretty
risky - they probably need to sell 5,00 copies to break even.

O'Reilly (and the prags etc.) re taking a big commercial risk by publishing
FP/Erlang books - what they hope is that one day these books will
reach the mainstream -

Now of course, Francesco et al (and myself) could self publish, publishing
through Lulu etc. is really easy (an cheap) so does not even need any
kickstarter money - the problem is finding decent technical editors and
proof readers. Self-published books will not find themselves on the
bookshelves of
my local bookstore.

>
> Lee Sylvester wrote:
>
>> It’s not about the $25.  With the effort you would have put into this,
>> it’s certainly worth it, I’m sure.  This is merely a debate of the business
>> of publishing and authoring.  In fact, I would feel better giving you $25
>> knowing you received it all than pay $25 to O’Reilly knowing you will see
>> about $0.25 of it :-)
>>
>>
>>
What about the money for Simon St. Laurent? - Let's assume that you
thought 25$ was a fair amount to pay for Francesco and Simmons first
Erlang book - would you pay equal amounts to Francesco and Simon.

But wait a moment their editor who I think was Simon St Laurent
will have made significant contributions to the book - should his
contribution
be unpaid and unrecognised?

> On 8 Jul 2014, at 19:51, Francesco Cesarini <francesco@REDACTED
>> com> wrote:
>>
>>  You do not write books because you believe you are going to make money
>>> out of them. You write them because you are passionate about the subject.
>>> If you calculate what Simon and I made from our first book, I am not sure
>>> we've hit minimum wage yet. From my side, I want to document my approach to
>>> teaching OTP, as I think it will work in writing as well as it does in the
>>> classroom. From the feedback Steve and I have received so far, we are right
>>> on track. Reiterating an email on this list from 2008, I want to see a
>>> whole bookshelf of Erlang/OTP books out there.
>>>
>>> I found the experience of working with O'Reilly really positive the
>>> first time around. From the editor, the production team (Graphics, copy
>>> editor, proof readers, etc) as well as their marketing and conferences.
>>>  And this time around, it is just as good, if not better. As an author, I
>>> could not recommend them more highly. I want to write books, I do not want
>>> to do all of the other stuff associated with getting it out. It is just a
>>> false economy.
>>>
>>
I agree 100% - my experience with the prags was the same - publishers
do not just screw the authors - they add value to the product and they take
a
financial risk.

(I actually find it strange to be arguing this. It would be easy to say that
all a publisher does is screw the authors but this is not true - they
actually improve the product - my books have been immensely improved by
my editors - Dave Thomas and Susannah Pfalzer)

Books published by reputable publishers are an essentially part of
becoming mainstream - the cost does not reflect the production cost
but rather what the publisher decides what to price the book at  - too
little
and they go bankrupt too much and they have no income.

All decent technical books are available on file sharing networks for free
anyway.

>
>>> /F
>>>
>>> PS. For those who can't afford 25$, try before you buy. It is called
>>> BitTorrent.
>>>
>>

>
>>> On 08/07/2014 19:39, Raoul Duke wrote:
>>>
>>>> i haven't looked at the books here, but having been somebody who
>>>> produced things and wondered how anybody could ever make a living at
>>>> it, and knowing that writers throughout history rarely made much after
>>>> the publisher etc. got a cut, i didn't have the same reaction to the
>>>> $50 price tag. can't say i'd *spend* the $50 since i'm broke and
>>>> there's a zillion other things to spend $50 on first. i'd try to get
>>>> it via inter library loan or something :-).
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Francesco Cesarini
>>>> <francesco@REDACTED> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Alas, that is how O'Reilly price their books. Having a high price and
>>>>> then
>>>>> discounting is not the approach I would pick. That is why discount
>>>>> codes are
>>>>> being handed out on public mailing lists and social media. I recommend
>>>>> you
>>>>> use them (Read, no one pays full price for an O'Reilly book). As an
>>>>> unedited
>>>>> book, the cost is for the final book which we hope will complement
>>>>> what is
>>>>> already out there. It is a different approach to OTP in action. One
>>>>> I've
>>>>> been using for 15 years when teaching OTP.
>>>>>
>>>>> /F
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/07/2014 19:14, Lee Sylvester wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow, $50?  Yeah, that is steep.  If this were some black arts compiler
>>>>>> book or video encoding bible, then that would be something else.  But
>>>>>> a book
>>>>>> on Erlang/OTP just doesn’t fall into that bracket…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I may wait til it falls in the bargain bucket ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    On 8 Jul 2014, at 19:08, Miles Fidelman <
>>>>>> mfidelman@REDACTED>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On 8 Jul 2014, at 16:05, Francesco Cesarini
>>>>>>> <francesco@REDACTED> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a shameless plug. Steve Vinoski and I are working on a book
>>>>>>>>> focused on
>>>>>>>>> distributed, scalable systems with OTP. It is available from
>>>>>>>>> O'Reilly as an
>>>>>>>>> Early Release from their website. The first eight chapters we
>>>>>>>>> released cover
>>>>>>>>> (in great detail) all other behaviours. We started writing, and
>>>>>>>>> before we
>>>>>>>>> knew it, we had several hundred pages on behaviours alone. Last
>>>>>>>>> week, two
>>>>>>>>> new chapters, including the Introduction & Special processes and
>>>>>>>>> Implementing your own behaviours were released. We are now
>>>>>>>>> focusing on
>>>>>>>>> release handling (hgg), code upgrade and architectural patterns.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is available is an unedited draft, with new chapters and
>>>>>>>>> improvements published as they become available. You can find more
>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>> here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920024149.do?
>>>>>>>>> intcmp=il-prog-books-videos-product-intsrch_erlang_ct
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you use discount code authd, you will get 50% off the Early
>>>>>>>>> Release,
>>>>>>>>> and 40% on pre-orders of the the printed copy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to your feedback,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Not for nothing, but $50 for the undedited work-in-progress seems
>>>>>>> a bit
>>>>>>> steep (and yes, I saw the discount code).  I also note that "rough
>>>>>>> cuts"
>>>>>>> aren't included in my Safari subscription.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usual practice that I've seen is for works-in-progress to be free,
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> tools that support comments from early readers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds interesting - but, from the TOC (all that's available without
>>>>>>> paying), it sure looks like it covers the same ground as "Erlang and
>>>>>>> OTP in
>>>>>>> Action."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Miles Fidelman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>>>>>> In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra
>>>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra
>
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