<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Miles Fidelman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net" target="_blank">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Likewise. Kickstarter or Indiegogo seems like a much better model for the writing period. Or maybe these guys: <a href="http://www.patreon.com" target="_blank">www.patreon.com</a> - interesting model for writers, musicians, and such - instead of funding a project, you subscribe to a person - at $x/chapter or /song.<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The problem is not financing the writing of the book - it's all the other stuff.</div><div><br></div><div>A decent book needs:</div><div><br></div><div>
- an good technical editor</div><div> - a copy editor</div><div> - layout/typography</div><div> - marketing</div><div> - etc.</div><div><br></div><div>Now while the author of a book will do this as a labour of love and is</div>
<div>just happy if the book gets read the editors and so on actually want to get</div><div>paid for their work - seen from O'Reillys POV any Erlang book is pretty</div><div>risky - they probably need to sell 5,00 copies to break even.</div>
<div><br></div><div>O'Reilly (and the prags etc.) re taking a big commercial risk by publishing</div><div>FP/Erlang books - what they hope is that one day these books will</div><div>reach the mainstream - </div><div><br>
</div><div>Now of course, Francesco et al (and myself) could self publish, publishing through Lulu etc. is really easy (an cheap) so does not even need any</div><div>kickstarter money - the problem is finding decent technical editors and proof readers. Self-published books will not find themselves on the bookshelves of</div>
<div>my local bookstore.</div><div><br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<br>
Lee Sylvester wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It’s not about the $25. With the effort you would have put into this, it’s certainly worth it, I’m sure. This is merely a debate of the business of publishing and authoring. In fact, I would feel better giving you $25 knowing you received it all than pay $25 to O’Reilly knowing you will see about $0.25 of it :-)<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>What about the money for Simon St. Laurent? - Let's assume that you</div><div>thought 25$ was a fair amount to pay for Francesco and Simmons first </div><div>
Erlang book - would you pay equal amounts to Francesco and Simon.</div><div><br></div><div>But wait a moment their editor who I think was Simon St Laurent</div><div>will have made significant contributions to the book - should his contribution</div>
<div>be unpaid and unrecognised?</div><div><br></div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 8 Jul 2014, at 19:51, Francesco Cesarini <<a href="mailto:francesco@erlang-solutions.com" target="_blank">francesco@erlang-solutions.<u></u>com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
You do not write books because you believe you are going to make money out of them. You write them because you are passionate about the subject. If you calculate what Simon and I made from our first book, I am not sure we've hit minimum wage yet. From my side, I want to document my approach to teaching OTP, as I think it will work in writing as well as it does in the classroom. From the feedback Steve and I have received so far, we are right on track. Reiterating an email on this list from 2008, I want to see a whole bookshelf of Erlang/OTP books out there.<br>
<br>
I found the experience of working with O'Reilly really positive the first time around. From the editor, the production team (Graphics, copy editor, proof readers, etc) as well as their marketing and conferences. And this time around, it is just as good, if not better. As an author, I could not recommend them more highly. I want to write books, I do not want to do all of the other stuff associated with getting it out. It is just a false economy.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree 100% - my experience with the prags was the same - publishers</div><div>do not just screw the authors - they add value to the product and they take a</div>
<div>financial risk.</div><div><br></div><div>(I actually find it strange to be arguing this. It would be easy to say that</div><div>all a publisher does is screw the authors but this is not true - they</div><div>actually improve the product - my books have been immensely improved by</div>
<div>my editors - Dave Thomas and Susannah Pfalzer)</div><div><br></div><div>Books published by reputable publishers are an essentially part of</div><div>becoming mainstream - the cost does not reflect the production cost</div>
<div>but rather what the publisher decides what to price the book at - too little</div><div>and they go bankrupt too much and they have no income.</div><div><br></div><div>All decent technical books are available on file sharing networks for free</div>
<div>anyway. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
/F<br>
<br>
PS. For those who can't afford 25$, try before you buy. It is called BitTorrent.<br></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
On 08/07/2014 19:39, Raoul Duke wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
i haven't looked at the books here, but having been somebody who<br>
produced things and wondered how anybody could ever make a living at<br>
it, and knowing that writers throughout history rarely made much after<br>
the publisher etc. got a cut, i didn't have the same reaction to the<br>
$50 price tag. can't say i'd *spend* the $50 since i'm broke and<br>
there's a zillion other things to spend $50 on first. i'd try to get<br>
it via inter library loan or something :-).<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Francesco Cesarini<br>
<<a href="mailto:francesco@erlang-solutions.com" target="_blank">francesco@erlang-solutions.<u></u>com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Alas, that is how O'Reilly price their books. Having a high price and then<br>
discounting is not the approach I would pick. That is why discount codes are<br>
being handed out on public mailing lists and social media. I recommend you<br>
use them (Read, no one pays full price for an O'Reilly book). As an unedited<br>
book, the cost is for the final book which we hope will complement what is<br>
already out there. It is a different approach to OTP in action. One I've<br>
been using for 15 years when teaching OTP.<br>
<br>
/F<br>
<br>
On 08/07/2014 19:14, Lee Sylvester wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Wow, $50? Yeah, that is steep. If this were some black arts compiler<br>
book or video encoding bible, then that would be something else. But a book<br>
on Erlang/OTP just doesn’t fall into that bracket…<br>
<br>
I may wait til it falls in the bargain bucket ;-)<br>
<br>
Lee<br>
<br>
On 8 Jul 2014, at 19:08, Miles Fidelman <<a href="mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net" target="_blank">mfidelman@meetinghouse.net</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 8 Jul 2014, at 16:05, Francesco Cesarini<br>
<<a href="mailto:francesco@erlang-solutions.com" target="_blank">francesco@erlang-solutions.<u></u>com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi all,<br>
<br>
a shameless plug. Steve Vinoski and I are working on a book focused on<br>
distributed, scalable systems with OTP. It is available from O'Reilly as an<br>
Early Release from their website. The first eight chapters we released cover<br>
(in great detail) all other behaviours. We started writing, and before we<br>
knew it, we had several hundred pages on behaviours alone. Last week, two<br>
new chapters, including the Introduction & Special processes and<br>
Implementing your own behaviours were released. We are now focusing on<br>
release handling (hgg), code upgrade and architectural patterns.<br>
<br>
What is available is an unedited draft, with new chapters and<br>
improvements published as they become available. You can find more info<br>
here:<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920024149.do?intcmp=il-prog-books-videos-product-intsrch_erlang_ct" target="_blank">http://shop.oreilly.com/<u></u>product/0636920024149.do?<u></u>intcmp=il-prog-books-videos-<u></u>product-intsrch_erlang_ct</a><br>
<br>
If you use discount code authd, you will get 50% off the Early Release,<br>
and 40% on pre-orders of the the printed copy.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to your feedback,<br>
<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
Not for nothing, but $50 for the undedited work-in-progress seems a bit<br>
steep (and yes, I saw the discount code). I also note that "rough cuts"<br>
aren't included in my Safari subscription.<br>
<br>
Usual practice that I've seen is for works-in-progress to be free, with<br>
tools that support comments from early readers.<br>
<br>
Sounds interesting - but, from the TOC (all that's available without<br>
paying), it sure looks like it covers the same ground as "Erlang and OTP in<br>
Action."<br>
<br>
Miles Fidelman<br>
<br>
--<br>
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.<br>
In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra<br>
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