[erlang-questions] Erlang for youngsters

Mon Jun 30 09:54:36 CEST 2014

Kudos for putting your money into a good cause!

Mark Nijhof writes:

> Done, use: http://leanpub.com/functionalerlang/c/FreeForKids which is also
> listed on the website itself.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:14 PM, Mark Nijhof <mark.nijhof@REDACTED
>> wrote:
>
>> Not sure how much it helps but I am more then happy to have an unending
>> (and publicly visible) coupon to get my book for free for kids. It is not
>> specifically targeted to kids but does have a very high example driven
>> approach. I.e. together we build stuff. Will make one tonight.
>>
>> http://gettingfunctionalwitherlang.com (btw not yet done).
>>
>> -Mark
>> On Jun 16, 2014 8:58 PM, <lloyd@REDACTED> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> So many great ideas. So many talented contributors. A fantasy---
>>>
>>> One or more of...
>>>
>>> - a website
>>> - hosting platform
>>> - an e-book - free for download
>>> - a hard-cover book - royalties kick back to help kids
>>> - a hardware platform - profits kick back to help kids
>>>
>>> Projects
>>>
>>> - build your own website
>>> - chat with friends
>>> - organize your collections
>>> - build a multi-player game
>>> - control a robot
>>> - control your house
>>> - build your own supercomputer
>>> ????
>>>
>>> Contest for project submissions
>>>
>>> Team
>>>
>>> - dedicated Erlang volunteers
>>> - perhaps formalize with a foundation ala Raspberry Pi
>>>
>>> Process
>>>
>>> - Dream
>>> - Brainstorm
>>> - Set goals
>>> - Organize
>>> - Delegate
>>> - Produce
>>>
>>> Platform
>>>
>>> - Software projects can be done on Windows assuming easy peasy Erlang
>>> install
>>>
>>> - How can we get youngsters into Linux?
>>>
>>> - A hardware platform would open up robotics and control applications:
>>>
>>> Cheap (under $100) ARM boards
>>>
>>> -- Arduino etc.
>>>
>>> -- Raspberry Pi
>>>
>>> -- I have an Odroid U3 on my desk. No time to fire it up yet; but very
>>> compact, quiet, low power, plenty of computing power, runs Linux. Total of
>>> $90 for board, pwr supply, HDMI cable, wi-fi module, and case. Would need
>>> an MicroSD card with Linux and Erlang installed.
>>>
>>> Over the past year there have been a slew of such devices hitting the
>>> market and more coming.
>>>
>>> Can we get /software/hardware cos to help sponsor the effort?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Lloyd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Ferenc Holzhauser" <ferenc.holzhauser@REDACTED>
>>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 1:30pm
>>> To: "Tony Rogvall" <tony@REDACTED>
>>> Cc: "erlang-questions@REDACTED" <erlang-questions@REDACTED>
>>> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Erlang for youngsters
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> erlang-questions mailing list
>>> erlang-questions@REDACTED
>>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>> Robotics is really nice but in this case accessibility is even nicer. It
>>> is
>>> great if kids can play after class too with interesting things without
>>> having to put items of fairly significant value (for some) on their
>>> <whatever present giving thing comes up next> wishlist. These days a
>>> computer with internet access can be a fascinatingly accessible way of
>>> creativity. An idea could be to make a simple game backend to compete with
>>> their friends and fellow students (e.g. a 2d tank shooting game or
>>> something). Eventually with chat and similar functions to add. Then the
>>> teacher could make things go wrong on the server(s) that they'd need to
>>> fix
>>> (distribute/scale/fail over) depending on their progress. You could lure
>>> them into AI like things too if you fancy. I'm sure someone with the
>>> skills
>>> (e.g. SVG/ezwebframe) and time could make some simple client "building
>>> blocks" work for something like this.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16 June 2014 18:12, Tony Rogvall <tony@REDACTED> wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > On 16 jun 2014, at 13:55, Mark Nijhof <mark.nijhof@REDACTED>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > +1 on this, this rings very true to home. But I also believe that it
>>> needs
>>> > to return results quickly. I.e. building a game is great, but if they
>>> have
>>> > to "code" for days before they see something happen then they loose
>>> > interest (assumption). So preparing "building blocks" might be a good
>>> > approach and have them first implement higher level stuff and then step
>>> by
>>> > step dig deeper and implement the building blocks you prepared.
>>> >
>>> > An other exercise I planned is to program a drone (not sure about the
>>> > language there yet) to fly an obstacle course. So they see it is not
>>> just
>>> > something that happens on their iPads ;)
>>> >
>>> > You program drone in Erlang of course :-)
>>> >
>>> > https://github.com/tonyrog/edrone
>>> >
>>> > /Tony
>>> >
>>> > -Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Mahesh Paolini-Subramanya <
>>> > mahesh@REDACTED> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> The most important thing here I believe is to have a nice collection of
>>> >>> simple tasks/problems that are appealing to the target audience and
>>> best
>>> >>> (easiest/nicest) solved in Erlang.
>>> >>
>>> >> Amen!
>>> >> The least relevant part of teaching kids programming is the syntax, or
>>> >> the choice of language - they don't, and won't, give a s**t about it.
>>> >> As a simple thought experiment, just look at how you raised your kids
>>> in
>>> >> a multi-lingual environment (yes my American brethren, this is hard.
>>> >> Pretend :-)  )  Notice how they - fluidly - bounce across languages,
>>> >> massacring every grammar rule ever, but quite happily making sure that
>>> you
>>> >> understand that "I amn't going to eat pea, ನಾನು ತಿನ್ನಲ್ಲ, ನಾನು
>>> ತಿನ್ನಲ್ಲ,
>>> >> odio odio odio la piselli, i don't wanna, where is my red truck?"
>>> >> Mind you, they will pick up the rules over time, but the key here is
>>> the
>>> >> importance of the problem at hand ("How To Avoid Eating Peas") - the
>>> more
>>> >> immediately relevant it is to the young 'uns, the more rapidly they
>>> will
>>> >> pick up the tools, the specifics of the language be damned.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Ferenc Holzhauser <
>>> >> ferenc.holzhauser@REDACTED> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> The most important thing here I believe is to have a nice collection
>>> of
>>> >>> simple tasks/problems that are appealing to the target audience and
>>> best
>>> >>> (easiest/nicest) solved in Erlang. That's a bit of a challenge
>>> considering
>>> >>> that Erlang is created to solve problems that are rather "industrial"
>>> and
>>> >>> most people "from outside" can't really relate to. If the audience is
>>> not
>>> >>> comfortable with understanding the problem itself then it is tricky
>>> to make
>>> >>> them understand/like the solution too.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> This we can see with many new people getting into Erlang: The problems
>>> >>> they are given are new and difficult to understand. So they often
>>> just go
>>> >>> off and eagerly try to solve all sort of issues they are familiar with
>>> >>> (even when they are not relevant in the particular case) before even
>>> trying
>>> >>> to understand what the real challenge is. Then they start complaining
>>> that
>>> >>> Erlang is not very good for some/many of those issues they are busy
>>> with.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> And other way around: people coming to Erlang with the right
>>> >>> understanding of the problem area it is made for find it amazingly
>>> simple
>>> >>> to learn.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Coming from the wrong (or right ?) background my imagination fails to
>>> >>> come up with these appealing challenges for the youngster target
>>> group, but
>>> >>> I'm sure many of you can do much better.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Ferenc
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 16 June 2014 11:31, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@REDACTED>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Garrett Smith wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Torben Hoffmann
>>> >>>>> <torben.hoffmann@REDACTED> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> -snip-
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>  I think that a learning resource focused on teaching people the
>>> >>>>>> Erlang model from the
>>> >>>>>> ground up would be a great improvement. A clear narrative around
>>> how
>>> >>>>>> do we solve a
>>> >>>>>> problem the Erlang way. Teaching the basic constructs is not the
>>> >>>>>> problem.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> My initial target for such a learning resources would be young
>>> people
>>> >>>>>> in the higher
>>> >>>>>> grades of elementary school, say 12-15 years. Why? Because I want
>>> to
>>> >>>>>> influence them
>>> >>>>>> before their minds are totally corrupted by other programming
>>> models.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I don't think we would have to dumb anything down in particular for
>>> >>>>>> this group - we
>>> >>>>>> just have to find a cool example and organise the learning around
>>> how
>>> >>>>>> to become so
>>> >>>>>> good that one can solve such a problem.
>>> >>>>>> Some sort of game will probably be the best candidate, say, some
>>> sort
>>> >>>>>> of Transport
>>> >>>>>> Tycoon clone?!?!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>> I don't have enough experience teaching programming to this age
>>> group
>>> >>>>> to provide anything more than a hunch. But I suspect that the Erlang
>>> >>>>> way, which is hard enough for very seasoned programmers to grok,
>>> might
>>> >>>>> be a bit ambitious for these young learners.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I'm speaking in particular about the model that emerges when you
>>> >>>>> isolate processes. It changes everything: your approach to building
>>> >>>>> software (move from state oriented to activity oriented), error
>>> >>>>> handling (move from defensive measures to assertive/let-it-crash),
>>> >>>>> program structure (from monolith to system), and so on. The benefits
>>> >>>>> of this shift are hard to get across, in my experience anyway. I
>>> wish
>>> >>>>> it wasn't, or I wish I was better at communicating.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> I'm with the folks who suggest that this group has fewer
>>> >>>> pre-conceptions to unlearn.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> It strikes me that the actor model is far more natural for certain
>>> >>>> classes of problems - network code, simulation, and gaming come to
>>> mind.
>>> >>>>  It's simply conceptually easier to think in terms of LOTS of
>>> independent
>>> >>>> processes.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Miles Fidelman
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>>> >>>> In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>>> erlang-questions mailing list
>>> >>>> erlang-questions@REDACTED
>>> >>>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >> * Mahesh Paolini-Subramanya
>>> >> <http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/204a87f81a0d9764c1f3364f53e8facf.png>
>>> That
>>> >> tall bald Indian guy..*
>>> >> * Google+ <https://plus.google.com/u/0/108074935470209044442/posts>
>>> >> | Blog <http://dieswaytoofast.blogspot.com/>   | Twitter
>>> >> <https://twitter.com/dieswaytoofast>  | LinkedIn
>>> >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/dieswaytoofast> *
>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Mark Nijhof
>>> > t:   @MarkNijhof <https://twitter.com/MarkNijhof>
>>> > s:  marknijhof
>>> >
>>> >  _______________________________________________
>>> > erlang-questions mailing list
>>> > erlang-questions@REDACTED
>>> > http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "Installing applications can lead to corruption over time. Applications
>>> > gradually write over each other's libraries, partial upgrades occur,
>>> user
>>> > and system errors happen, and minute changes may be unnoticeable and
>>> > difficult to fix"
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > erlang-questions mailing list
>>> > erlang-questions@REDACTED
>>> > http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>

-- 
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