[erlang-questions] Erlang for youngsters

Mon Jun 16 21:35:55 CEST 2014

Done, use: http://leanpub.com/functionalerlang/c/FreeForKids which is also
listed on the website itself.

-Mark

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:14 PM, Mark Nijhof <mark.nijhof@REDACTED
> wrote:

> Not sure how much it helps but I am more then happy to have an unending
> (and publicly visible) coupon to get my book for free for kids. It is not
> specifically targeted to kids but does have a very high example driven
> approach. I.e. together we build stuff. Will make one tonight.
>
> http://gettingfunctionalwitherlang.com (btw not yet done).
>
> -Mark
> On Jun 16, 2014 8:58 PM, <lloyd@REDACTED> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> So many great ideas. So many talented contributors. A fantasy---
>>
>> One or more of...
>>
>> - a website
>> - hosting platform
>> - an e-book - free for download
>> - a hard-cover book - royalties kick back to help kids
>> - a hardware platform - profits kick back to help kids
>>
>> Projects
>>
>> - build your own website
>> - chat with friends
>> - organize your collections
>> - build a multi-player game
>> - control a robot
>> - control your house
>> - build your own supercomputer
>> ????
>>
>> Contest for project submissions
>>
>> Team
>>
>> - dedicated Erlang volunteers
>> - perhaps formalize with a foundation ala Raspberry Pi
>>
>> Process
>>
>> - Dream
>> - Brainstorm
>> - Set goals
>> - Organize
>> - Delegate
>> - Produce
>>
>> Platform
>>
>> - Software projects can be done on Windows assuming easy peasy Erlang
>> install
>>
>> - How can we get youngsters into Linux?
>>
>> - A hardware platform would open up robotics and control applications:
>>
>> Cheap (under $100) ARM boards
>>
>> -- Arduino etc.
>>
>> -- Raspberry Pi
>>
>> -- I have an Odroid U3 on my desk. No time to fire it up yet; but very
>> compact, quiet, low power, plenty of computing power, runs Linux. Total of
>> $90 for board, pwr supply, HDMI cable, wi-fi module, and case. Would need
>> an MicroSD card with Linux and Erlang installed.
>>
>> Over the past year there have been a slew of such devices hitting the
>> market and more coming.
>>
>> Can we get /software/hardware cos to help sponsor the effort?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Lloyd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Ferenc Holzhauser" <ferenc.holzhauser@REDACTED>
>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 1:30pm
>> To: "Tony Rogvall" <tony@REDACTED>
>> Cc: "erlang-questions@REDACTED" <erlang-questions@REDACTED>
>> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Erlang for youngsters
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> erlang-questions@REDACTED
>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>> Robotics is really nice but in this case accessibility is even nicer. It
>> is
>> great if kids can play after class too with interesting things without
>> having to put items of fairly significant value (for some) on their
>> <whatever present giving thing comes up next> wishlist. These days a
>> computer with internet access can be a fascinatingly accessible way of
>> creativity. An idea could be to make a simple game backend to compete with
>> their friends and fellow students (e.g. a 2d tank shooting game or
>> something). Eventually with chat and similar functions to add. Then the
>> teacher could make things go wrong on the server(s) that they'd need to
>> fix
>> (distribute/scale/fail over) depending on their progress. You could lure
>> them into AI like things too if you fancy. I'm sure someone with the
>> skills
>> (e.g. SVG/ezwebframe) and time could make some simple client "building
>> blocks" work for something like this.
>>
>>
>> On 16 June 2014 18:12, Tony Rogvall <tony@REDACTED> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On 16 jun 2014, at 13:55, Mark Nijhof <mark.nijhof@REDACTED>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > +1 on this, this rings very true to home. But I also believe that it
>> needs
>> > to return results quickly. I.e. building a game is great, but if they
>> have
>> > to "code" for days before they see something happen then they loose
>> > interest (assumption). So preparing "building blocks" might be a good
>> > approach and have them first implement higher level stuff and then step
>> by
>> > step dig deeper and implement the building blocks you prepared.
>> >
>> > An other exercise I planned is to program a drone (not sure about the
>> > language there yet) to fly an obstacle course. So they see it is not
>> just
>> > something that happens on their iPads ;)
>> >
>> > You program drone in Erlang of course :-)
>> >
>> > https://github.com/tonyrog/edrone
>> >
>> > /Tony
>> >
>> > -Mark
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Mahesh Paolini-Subramanya <
>> > mahesh@REDACTED> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The most important thing here I believe is to have a nice collection of
>> >>> simple tasks/problems that are appealing to the target audience and
>> best
>> >>> (easiest/nicest) solved in Erlang.
>> >>
>> >> Amen!
>> >> The least relevant part of teaching kids programming is the syntax, or
>> >> the choice of language - they don't, and won't, give a s**t about it.
>> >> As a simple thought experiment, just look at how you raised your kids
>> in
>> >> a multi-lingual environment (yes my American brethren, this is hard.
>> >> Pretend :-)  )  Notice how they - fluidly - bounce across languages,
>> >> massacring every grammar rule ever, but quite happily making sure that
>> you
>> >> understand that "I amn't going to eat pea, ನಾನು ತಿನ್ನಲ್ಲ, ನಾನು
>> ತಿನ್ನಲ್ಲ,
>> >> odio odio odio la piselli, i don't wanna, where is my red truck?"
>> >> Mind you, they will pick up the rules over time, but the key here is
>> the
>> >> importance of the problem at hand ("How To Avoid Eating Peas") - the
>> more
>> >> immediately relevant it is to the young 'uns, the more rapidly they
>> will
>> >> pick up the tools, the specifics of the language be damned.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Ferenc Holzhauser <
>> >> ferenc.holzhauser@REDACTED> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The most important thing here I believe is to have a nice collection
>> of
>> >>> simple tasks/problems that are appealing to the target audience and
>> best
>> >>> (easiest/nicest) solved in Erlang. That's a bit of a challenge
>> considering
>> >>> that Erlang is created to solve problems that are rather "industrial"
>> and
>> >>> most people "from outside" can't really relate to. If the audience is
>> not
>> >>> comfortable with understanding the problem itself then it is tricky
>> to make
>> >>> them understand/like the solution too.
>> >>>
>> >>> This we can see with many new people getting into Erlang: The problems
>> >>> they are given are new and difficult to understand. So they often
>> just go
>> >>> off and eagerly try to solve all sort of issues they are familiar with
>> >>> (even when they are not relevant in the particular case) before even
>> trying
>> >>> to understand what the real challenge is. Then they start complaining
>> that
>> >>> Erlang is not very good for some/many of those issues they are busy
>> with.
>> >>>
>> >>> And other way around: people coming to Erlang with the right
>> >>> understanding of the problem area it is made for find it amazingly
>> simple
>> >>> to learn.
>> >>>
>> >>> Coming from the wrong (or right ?) background my imagination fails to
>> >>> come up with these appealing challenges for the youngster target
>> group, but
>> >>> I'm sure many of you can do much better.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ferenc
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 16 June 2014 11:31, Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@REDACTED>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Garrett Smith wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Torben Hoffmann
>> >>>>> <torben.hoffmann@REDACTED> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -snip-
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>  I think that a learning resource focused on teaching people the
>> >>>>>> Erlang model from the
>> >>>>>> ground up would be a great improvement. A clear narrative around
>> how
>> >>>>>> do we solve a
>> >>>>>> problem the Erlang way. Teaching the basic constructs is not the
>> >>>>>> problem.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> My initial target for such a learning resources would be young
>> people
>> >>>>>> in the higher
>> >>>>>> grades of elementary school, say 12-15 years. Why? Because I want
>> to
>> >>>>>> influence them
>> >>>>>> before their minds are totally corrupted by other programming
>> models.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I don't think we would have to dumb anything down in particular for
>> >>>>>> this group - we
>> >>>>>> just have to find a cool example and organise the learning around
>> how
>> >>>>>> to become so
>> >>>>>> good that one can solve such a problem.
>> >>>>>> Some sort of game will probably be the best candidate, say, some
>> sort
>> >>>>>> of Transport
>> >>>>>> Tycoon clone?!?!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't have enough experience teaching programming to this age
>> group
>> >>>>> to provide anything more than a hunch. But I suspect that the Erlang
>> >>>>> way, which is hard enough for very seasoned programmers to grok,
>> might
>> >>>>> be a bit ambitious for these young learners.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I'm speaking in particular about the model that emerges when you
>> >>>>> isolate processes. It changes everything: your approach to building
>> >>>>> software (move from state oriented to activity oriented), error
>> >>>>> handling (move from defensive measures to assertive/let-it-crash),
>> >>>>> program structure (from monolith to system), and so on. The benefits
>> >>>>> of this shift are hard to get across, in my experience anyway. I
>> wish
>> >>>>> it wasn't, or I wish I was better at communicating.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> I'm with the folks who suggest that this group has fewer
>> >>>> pre-conceptions to unlearn.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It strikes me that the actor model is far more natural for certain
>> >>>> classes of problems - network code, simulation, and gaming come to
>> mind.
>> >>>>  It's simply conceptually easier to think in terms of LOTS of
>> independent
>> >>>> processes.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Miles Fidelman
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
>> >>>> In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> >>>> erlang-questions@REDACTED
>> >>>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> >>> erlang-questions@REDACTED
>> >>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> * Mahesh Paolini-Subramanya
>> >> <http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/204a87f81a0d9764c1f3364f53e8facf.png>
>> That
>> >> tall bald Indian guy..*
>> >> * Google+ <https://plus.google.com/u/0/108074935470209044442/posts>
>> >> | Blog <http://dieswaytoofast.blogspot.com/>   | Twitter
>> >> <https://twitter.com/dieswaytoofast>  | LinkedIn
>> >> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/dieswaytoofast> *
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mark Nijhof
>> > t:   @MarkNijhof <https://twitter.com/MarkNijhof>
>> > s:  marknijhof
>> >
>> >  _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> > "Installing applications can lead to corruption over time. Applications
>> > gradually write over each other's libraries, partial upgrades occur,
>> user
>> > and system errors happen, and minute changes may be unnoticeable and
>> > difficult to fix"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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>

-- 
Mark Nijhof
t:   @MarkNijhof <https://twitter.com/MarkNijhof>
s:  marknijhof
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