[erlang-questions] Erlang vs Clojure

Valentin Micic valentin@REDACTED
Sun Nov 25 13:46:22 CET 2007

I am against bending the language to fit the task, but I am not in favour of 
bending a specific reality (i.e. JVM) either.
This is what I'm saying: don't treat the symptoms -- cure the disease.
And further yet: one that sleeps with dogs, will, eventually, end up with 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robin" <robi123@REDACTED>
To: <erlang-questions@REDACTED>
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Erlang vs Clojure

> That could be a testimonial of the failure of the Java Language, but
> it might be a success story for the Java Virtual Machine.
> The interesting thing about those 287 languages is that they work both
> ways.  It is not only that you can call existing Java libraries, but
> you can embed those 287 languages within your application.  It is like
> selecting any language for the task at hand rather than bending the
> language you have to fit every task.
> Projects like Jython and JRuby are really picking up steam.  JRuby
> v1.1 now out performs the C Ruby interpreter.
> On Nov 25, 2:56 am, "Valentin Micic" <valen...@REDACTED> wrote:
>> Couldn't these ~300 languages you're mentioning serve as the best
>> testimonial about magnitude of Java's failure?
>> Running these language on top of JVM looks to me like having a headache 
>> and
>> attempting to cure it by hitting ones kneecap with a big hammer. Hey, 
>> head
>> is no longer hurting, but good that you're not asking about my knee...
>> The cure is: have a healthier life-style. Erlang is one option, the 
>> other...
>> I've been considering career in agriculture for quite some time now ;-).
>> Power of Erlang, IMHO, is substantially embedded in a language itself, 
>> thus,
>> assuming that Erlang is not suitable for everything, instead of
>> "dot-netting" (*) the environment, one should just continue doing what 
>> we've
>> been doing: integrate with the external  environment, whilst preserving 
>> the
>> identity -- if Erlang is to strive (and, my God, it worked so well for me
>> during the last six years), one *must* evangelize the language, not the 
>> VM.
>> V.
>> (*) Java, IMHO, was never a step forward. It was a reaction to 
>> Microsoft's
>> domination of the world... So, when Microsoft introduced dot-net, a (bit
>> delayed) reaction was to introduce a bunch of new languages to run on top 
>> of
>> JVM, to counter a new threat. Why should Erlang sing the same tune? Or am 
>> I
>> too cynical?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin Bhattacharyya" <robi...@REDACTED>
>> To: <erlang-questi...@REDACTED>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:12 AM
>> Subject: [erlang-questions] Erlang vs Clojure
>> > Smerl manipulates erlang at the abstract form, so smerl is kinda like
>> > a lisp macro.  A lispy erlang would make erlang easier to manipulate.
>> > Paul Graham makes the case in his book On Lisp that some special forms
>> > are only possible by using macros.
>> > Rich Hickey, the author of Clojure, makes the case that in the past
>> > lisps failed to catch on because they were off on an "island" with
>> > their own runtimes.  The legacy of Java will be the JVM not the Java
>> > language, as there are currently ~300 languages targeting the JVM.
>> > I think a lispy syntax, with the concurrency principles of Erlang,
>> > running on the JVM runtime, could be a powerful combination.
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