[erlang-questions] Elixir community, please be more responsible; Erlang community, please demand it.

Sun Mar 24 12:29:19 CET 2019

Hi, 
this discussion turns out to be very nice and uplifting.
A very fine example how problems can be solved!

Regarding nerves: this is on my list of things to try, on the way I might also peek a bit into elixir.

Regards,
Dieter

Am 24. März 2019 11:40:34 MEZ schrieb Joe Armstrong <erlang@REDACTED>:
>Well I can't really comment on the talk since I wasn't there - so all
>I can comment
>on are the comments I've read here.
>
>I for one welcome all the things the Elixir folks are doing - but I
>have noticed the following:
>
>- Elixir folks are re-using Erlang libraries
>- Erlang folks are not (it seems to me) reusing Elixir libraries
>
>The "how to call Erlang from Elixir" documentation is great - the
>opposite "how to call Elixir from Elixir" is not (or have I missed
>something)
>
>Things like nerves, scenic, Phoenix etc. look great to me - but seem to
>be used
>almost exclusively by Elixir folks.
>
>Has anybody made, for example, a pure Erlang interface to scenic?
>
>As for things said in talks that upset people - I have done this myself
>on several occasions - you say something that gets misinterpreted
>and then everybody gets upset and they don't talk about the subject
>of the talk but about the thing that annoyed them.
>
>Andrea mailed me off-list with an apology - funny really when somebody
>mails you apologising for something that you didn't even know had
>happened
>but nice of him to do so ...
>
>I'm just curious - has anybody made a pure Erlang interface to scenic?
>
>And since this is the erlang list - how about joining the elixir forum
>so you can get
>an idea of what's going on over there - lot's of fun stuff I see
>
>Cheers
>
>/Joe
>
>
>On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 8:27 PM Bryan Paxton <starbelly@REDACTED>
>wrote:
>>
>>   You need a lagom bottles of scotch :)
>>
>> On 3/23/19 2:21 PM, alex@REDACTED wrote:
>>
>> WTF!  They are messing up with Joe?!  No triggering...internalize
>what?  What's his name and address?!!  I'm flying in.  Need a bottle of
>scotch and a map in that same order.  LOL!
>>
>> On 3/23/19 2:22 PM, Bryan Paxton wrote:
>>
>>  No, no... no triggering happened :) It's better to talk than to
>internalize... so I'm glad you brought this up. Communication is the
>only way to resolve misunderstanding :) :heart:
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>> On 3/23/19 1:15 PM, arif wrote:
>>
>> ok. i’ll take your word for it. it’s quite possible i got it wrong 
>and i’m sorry to have triggered this then.
>> thanks for sharing your thoughts
>> Arif
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 Mar 2019, at 18:22, Bryan Paxton <starbelly@REDACTED> wrote:
>>
>>  FWIW the speaker in question has never come across to me as being
>hostile towards Erlang, etc. They have always been very laid back, open
>to ideas, erlang, etc. In fact, I was talking to them about Erlang
>earlier this week and they encouraged me to talk about Erlang in an
>Elixir dominated environment :) So, I have to assume that things came
>across the wrong way due to language barriers, etc.  Jokes in
>particular get lost in translation easily and can be seen as something
>hostile or malicious...  The folly of language.
>>
>>  Then there's always the possibility the talk was a behavioral
>experiment :)
>>
>>    But I'm glad we got a line of communication open as that's the
>only way that squashes these issues. The BEAM communities need group
>therapy sometimes IMO :)
>>
>>  There's been a lot of hostility from the Erlang community towards
>Elixir in the past... and I wonder if the echoes of all that are so
>ingrained in some of us that we have knee jerk reactions sometimes
>(i.e., we hear something from an Elixir speaker and absolutely take it
>the wrong way). Having come from Elixir to Erlang I very much have seen
>both sides of that coin. I know this much....
>>
>>  The main thing... Elixir is Erlang, LFE is Elang, Efene is Erlang,
>Gleam is Erlang, etc.... While from one side it appears Elixir is
>another language... I don't think many, especially in the Elixir
>community feel that way... especially core members, syntactical
>differences aside Elixir is erlang. BEAM on!
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>> On 3/23/19 11:57 AM, Oliver Korpilla wrote:
>>
>> I hear you. One can only hope. Those things always happen, though,
>almost invariably. I guess it has mostly to do with the desire to carve
>one's own niche.
>>
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 23. März 2019 um 17:46 Uhr
>> Von: "Bryan Paxton" <starbelly@REDACTED>
>> An: "Oliver Korpilla" <Oliver.Korpilla@REDACTED>
>> Cc: arif@REDACTED, erlang-questions@REDACTED
>> Betreff: Re: Aw: Re: [erlang-questions] Elixir community, please be
>more responsible; Erlang community, please demand it.
>>
>>  I hear ya... I was being lazy :) I see who it is and I have to
>wonder if some of what he said was in gest? Maybe just didn't come
>across right? I hope so :(
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/23/19 11:44 AM, Oliver Korpilla wrote:
>>
>> I'd prefer no calling out of the name, what good will that do?
>>
>> Gesendet: Samstag, 23. März 2019 um 17:36 Uhr
>> Von: "Bryan Paxton" <starbelly@REDACTED>
>> An: arif@REDACTED, erlang-questions@REDACTED
>> Betreff: Re: [erlang-questions] Elixir community, please be more
>responsible; Erlang community, please demand it.
>>  Who was the speaker?
>>
>> On 3/23/19 11:13 AM, arif@REDACTED wrote:
>> > Yesterday I attended the Code Beam Lite conference in Bologna,
>Italy. It
>> > ended with a keynote by an Elixir Core Team member, entitled
>"Elixir
>> > Architecture 101".
>> >
>> > At the end of an otherwise interesting talk, which started with the
>> > presenter saying he hated Erlang (some in the audience found it
>funny)
>> > and in which he occasionally made fun of Joe and of the perceived
>> > shortcomings of Erlang, I couldn’t help wonder where Elixir was in
>all
>> > that talk, since the “Elixir” architecture presented, was
>practically
>> > OTP.
>> >
>> > I find this very much in bad taste and not helpful towards a
>beneficial
>> > sharing and spreading of knowledge. I don’t know if the Code of
>Conduct
>> > of the Code Beam conferences contemplates this, but I would favour
>> > forbidding it.
>> >
>> > If Elixir has something good to offer, and I think it has, let its
>> > community showcase that, advance the common good and knowledge, and
>not
>> > promote its cause through what, in my eyes, would amount to
>plagiarism,
>> > viz. letting things pass for Elixir, when they are Erlang/OTP, nor
>> > through ridiculing anyone or anything, least of all the very things
>or
>> > persons that made it even possible. It not only looks childish to
>me, I
>> > believe it is also damaging to the many excellent minds in the very
>> > Elixir community.
>> >
>> > Elixir community, please be more responsible; Erlang community,
>please
>> > demand it.
>> > _______________________________________________
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