[erlang-questions] Simple Erlang Recommendation (last returned value)
Sun Jul 27 01:21:47 CEST 2008
I am fairly new to Erlang but have considerable experience in other
languages. I agree with you. In every case where I have struggled with this
issue in Erlang, it has come down to poor code structure, and refactoring
solved the problem. Erlang code that I have read which was written by other,
more experienced "Erlangistas", generally doesn't seem to have this problem.
On the other hand, perhaps using a functional language to express procedural
algorithms is not always a good fit. I am thinking of code, of which there
seems to be more than a little, which has functions named something like
possibly_do_this(), or do_this() followed by really_do_this(). Although the
code is understandable, and I am guilty of doing the same thing, it feels a
bit unnatural at times.
Perhaps the real issue is thinking procedurally in a functional language.
Then again, due to my relative lack of experience with Erlang (and
functional languages in general), maybe I have just not seen or written
enough Erlang code to warrant giving an opinion on this.
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Alain O'Dea <alain.odea@REDACTED> wrote:
> On 26-Jul-08, at 6:47 PM, James Hague wrote:
> >> Imagine this:
> >> X = tl(L),
> >> ... many messy lines ...
> >> *X = tl(X),
> >> ... another many lines ...
> >> *X = tl(X),
> >> ... another many almost unreadable messy lines ...
> >> sensitive_usage(X), % <--- buggy X value observed here
> >> And my question is, where Value of X came from? It goes from L, but
> >> how long
> >> it take and how many errors you can do when you will investigate?
> > It's just as bad when there's code like this:
> > T2 = something(T),
> > T3 = something(T2),
> > T4 = something(T3),
> > T5 = something(T4),
> > T6 = something(T5)
> > You may laugh at that code, but it's hardly uncommon, even in code
> > written by experienced programmers. It's very easy to accidentally
> > use T4 in a spot when you meant T3, or to have to renumber things and
> > make a mistake.
> > Please note that I am not arguing for changes in Erlang. I truly am
> > not. But I can understand why this request comes up regularly.
> > James
> Erlang should not introduce mutable variables because they make it
> easy to disguise a variety of code smells as clean code.
> Code like James' example is code that does not express its intentions
> clearly. The fact that it is common demonstrates a common problem with
> code quality, not a need to modify Erlang. Poor expression of
> intentions complicates analysis for someone reading the code, even the
> original author.
> Numeric increments of a variable name is a code smell that indicates a
> need for refactoring, not a need to modify Erlang to disguise code
> If you give semantic names to each transformation applied to the data,
> then the code will express its intentions clearly. When you express
> your intentions clearly you avoid a lot of bugs. Subsequent
> refactoring work is also made easier, especially when the original
> author is unavailable.
> Mutable variables make it easy to disguise a variety of code smells as
> clean code. For that reason alone, Erlang should not introduce mutable
> There is a lot of history behind Erlang not having mutable variables.
> There are fundamental reasons scientific reasons not to have
> mutability in a programming language. The most intuitive of these is
> that (to quote Joe Armstrong) single assignment is like algebra. X = X
> + 1 makes no sense. Allowing it in a programming language makes it
> easy to unintentionally hide intentions. More importantly it makes
> reasoning about your program more difficult and severely complicates
> concurrency and closures.
> Does anyone here still think that Erlang should add mutable variables?
> erlang-questions mailing list
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