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<p>It also looks like Andrea is having problems with the mailing
list so, I'm going to copy/paste/forward this on his behalf: <br>
</p>
<p><br>
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class="gmail-m_-6776136795739413793m_6449792597985934857gmail_signature">
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">Author of the talk here.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I'm sorry if anything I said came off as bad
taste or even against the Code of Conduct. I jokingly said
I hate Erlang because I knew a lot of members in the
audience and I thought it was obvious it was a joke (my
bad). I also said "just kidding" but maybe I wasn't clear
enough.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I did comment that Erlang's
simple_one_for_one is confusing (which I do believe it
is). I could probably have expanded on that though,
instead of leaving it as a brief remark. But I don't think
criticizing Erlang is not allowed, same as I don't think
criticizing Elixir is not permitted, and that's why I felt
free to make the comment.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I did not make fun of Joe. I included two
pictures of him in the presentation that I found on
Google, since he is an important and known figure in both
Erlang and Elixir communities. One of them was a silly
meme about how great hot code swapping is but severely
underused. I will reach out to Joe and apologize if I
stepped out of line.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Arif, I agree with you that "Elixir
Architecture 101" is a bad title and the presentation was
definitely about Erlang/OTP first and foremost. That's why
I never said "Elixir application" or "this is how you do
this in Elixir", but always said "Elixir and Erlang" or
"Erlang and Elixir". I'm aware Elixir doesn't exist
without Erlang and I'm not at all ungrateful for Erlang.
You will also see the same in Elixir documentation and
most of its ecosystem: you are not building an "Elixir
application" or a "Phoenix application", but an Erlang/OTP
one.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">In other talks I've often said things that
promote the use of Erlang in the Elixir community and that
promote the cooperation between the communities, which is
something I strongly believe in.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Anyhow, sorry for the mess. I'll do better
next time.</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Andrea Leopardi
<div><a href="mailto:an.leopardi@gmail.com" target="_blank">an.leopardi@gmail.com</a></div>
<div><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/24/19 5:40 AM, Joe Armstrong
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAANBt-pAvtFWx5mxKhUDeriJ3NtqdyLoDHvxqi7-W-v0VYJ=Ww@mail.gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Well I can't really comment on the talk since I wasn't there - so all
I can comment
on are the comments I've read here.
I for one welcome all the things the Elixir folks are doing - but I
have noticed the following:
- Elixir folks are re-using Erlang libraries
- Erlang folks are not (it seems to me) reusing Elixir libraries
The "how to call Erlang from Elixir" documentation is great - the
opposite "how to call Elixir from Elixir" is not (or have I missed something)
Things like nerves, scenic, Phoenix etc. look great to me - but seem to be used
almost exclusively by Elixir folks.
Has anybody made, for example, a pure Erlang interface to scenic?
As for things said in talks that upset people - I have done this myself
on several occasions - you say something that gets misinterpreted
and then everybody gets upset and they don't talk about the subject
of the talk but about the thing that annoyed them.
Andrea mailed me off-list with an apology - funny really when somebody
mails you apologising for something that you didn't even know had happened
but nice of him to do so ...
I'm just curious - has anybody made a pure Erlang interface to scenic?
And since this is the erlang list - how about joining the elixir forum
so you can get
an idea of what's going on over there - lot's of fun stuff I see
Cheers
/Joe
On Sat, Mar 23, 2019 at 8:27 PM Bryan Paxton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starbelly@pobox.com"><starbelly@pobox.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
You need a lagom bottles of scotch :)
On 3/23/19 2:21 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:alex@xbasics.com">alex@xbasics.com</a> wrote:
WTF! They are messing up with Joe?! No triggering...internalize what? What's his name and address?!! I'm flying in. Need a bottle of scotch and a map in that same order. LOL!
On 3/23/19 2:22 PM, Bryan Paxton wrote:
No, no... no triggering happened :) It's better to talk than to internalize... so I'm glad you brought this up. Communication is the only way to resolve misunderstanding :) :heart:
--
Bryan
On 3/23/19 1:15 PM, arif wrote:
ok. i’ll take your word for it. it’s quite possible i got it wrong and i’m sorry to have triggered this then.
thanks for sharing your thoughts
Arif
On 23 Mar 2019, at 18:22, Bryan Paxton <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starbelly@pobox.com"><starbelly@pobox.com></a> wrote:
FWIW the speaker in question has never come across to me as being hostile towards Erlang, etc. They have always been very laid back, open to ideas, erlang, etc. In fact, I was talking to them about Erlang earlier this week and they encouraged me to talk about Erlang in an Elixir dominated environment :) So, I have to assume that things came across the wrong way due to language barriers, etc. Jokes in particular get lost in translation easily and can be seen as something hostile or malicious... The folly of language.
Then there's always the possibility the talk was a behavioral experiment :)
But I'm glad we got a line of communication open as that's the only way that squashes these issues. The BEAM communities need group therapy sometimes IMO :)
There's been a lot of hostility from the Erlang community towards Elixir in the past... and I wonder if the echoes of all that are so ingrained in some of us that we have knee jerk reactions sometimes (i.e., we hear something from an Elixir speaker and absolutely take it the wrong way). Having come from Elixir to Erlang I very much have seen both sides of that coin. I know this much....
The main thing... Elixir is Erlang, LFE is Elang, Efene is Erlang, Gleam is Erlang, etc.... While from one side it appears Elixir is another language... I don't think many, especially in the Elixir community feel that way... especially core members, syntactical differences aside Elixir is erlang. BEAM on!
--
Bryan
On 3/23/19 11:57 AM, Oliver Korpilla wrote:
I hear you. One can only hope. Those things always happen, though, almost invariably. I guess it has mostly to do with the desire to carve one's own niche.
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. März 2019 um 17:46 Uhr
Von: "Bryan Paxton" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starbelly@pobox.com"><starbelly@pobox.com></a>
An: "Oliver Korpilla" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Oliver.Korpilla@gmx.de"><Oliver.Korpilla@gmx.de></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arif@riseup.net">arif@riseup.net</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org">erlang-questions@erlang.org</a>
Betreff: Re: Aw: Re: [erlang-questions] Elixir community, please be more responsible; Erlang community, please demand it.
I hear ya... I was being lazy :) I see who it is and I have to wonder if some of what he said was in gest? Maybe just didn't come across right? I hope so :(
--
Bryan
On 3/23/19 11:44 AM, Oliver Korpilla wrote:
I'd prefer no calling out of the name, what good will that do?
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. März 2019 um 17:36 Uhr
Von: "Bryan Paxton" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starbelly@pobox.com"><starbelly@pobox.com></a>
An: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arif@riseup.net">arif@riseup.net</a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org">erlang-questions@erlang.org</a>
Betreff: Re: [erlang-questions] Elixir community, please be more responsible; Erlang community, please demand it.
Who was the speaker?
On 3/23/19 11:13 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arif@riseup.net">arif@riseup.net</a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Yesterday I attended the Code Beam Lite conference in Bologna, Italy. It
ended with a keynote by an Elixir Core Team member, entitled "Elixir
Architecture 101".
At the end of an otherwise interesting talk, which started with the
presenter saying he hated Erlang (some in the audience found it funny)
and in which he occasionally made fun of Joe and of the perceived
shortcomings of Erlang, I couldn’t help wonder where Elixir was in all
that talk, since the “Elixir” architecture presented, was practically
OTP.
I find this very much in bad taste and not helpful towards a beneficial
sharing and spreading of knowledge. I don’t know if the Code of Conduct
of the Code Beam conferences contemplates this, but I would favour
forbidding it.
If Elixir has something good to offer, and I think it has, let its
community showcase that, advance the common good and knowledge, and not
promote its cause through what, in my eyes, would amount to plagiarism,
viz. letting things pass for Elixir, when they are Erlang/OTP, nor
through ridiculing anyone or anything, least of all the very things or
persons that made it even possible. It not only looks childish to me, I
believe it is also damaging to the many excellent minds in the very
Elixir community.
Elixir community, please be more responsible; Erlang community, please
demand it.
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