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A CoC smells like the formalised "Common Value System" that all<br>
school children in Sweden has to accept (in writing) and discuss<br>
in "Common Value System" events (taking up to two days) each year.<br>
<br>
Klacke says that it develops their bullshit detector to a fine<br>
tuned instrument. Lets hope so.<br>
<br>
/Jocke<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2015-03-16 10:56, Thomas Lindgren
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1686317266.63162.1426499784753.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:lucida
console, sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8485">Hi Gordon, do recall,
however, that this is a mailing list, not a booze up in
Edinburgh. </span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr">I'm
concerned because most of this seems to be driven not by real
needs due to eternal flame wars and off topic malformed
posting on this mailing list, but by holier-than-thou
posturing in Silicon Valley. The mere fact that you are
mentioning "doxxing" and "swatting" gives things a very, shall
we say, contemporary american feel. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr">What's worse
is this sort of policing has already deprived or attempted to
deprive several technical projects of key contributors
(example 1: Ben Noordhuis in node.js). I find such a
development frankly deplorable and a sign that the field is
turning from technology into petty (but vicious) politics. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr">I would for
these reasons strongly prefer not to introduce this sort of
policy. I am, of course, ready and willing to be banned for my
potentially insensitive, hateful, oppressive (etc) statements
-- fire away, moderators.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr">Best,</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr">Thomas</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426498089891_8479" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday,
March 16, 2015 8:53 AM, Gordon Guthrie
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gguthrie@basho.com"><gguthrie@basho.com></a> wrote:<br>
</font> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left:
5px;"> <br>
<br>
<div class="y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv5849377358">
<div dir="ltr">I'm glad the Erlang Community is
thinking about a CoC - and I thought I would
explain why.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We started thinking about it in Edinburgh a
couple of years ago.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A lot of my friends and colleagues are
Rubyists and the Ruby community always thought
of itself as 'nice' and 'welcoming' but, like
many other communities, built the social side of
the community around drink.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Then at one event a female engineer was
sexually assaulted in public by her manager,
after drink taken. This had a spiral of
consequences that ended up with her leaving the
industry - and (much less importantly) left the
community in shock.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At this point we started reviewing how we did
things. Did we organise events with 'compulsory
drinking'? Yes we did. Turns out a fair number
of people (not just women) find find packs of
drunk engineers unwelcoming.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have organised 3 Fringe conferences at the
Turing Festival, a couple of Erlang Factory
Lights, blah-blah-blah over the years - and at
all of them I assumed 'be nice' was enough.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some things came out of the woodwork. There's
a prominent drinks/networking meetup in London
that I have attended a couple of times. A female
engineering acquaintance said she wouldn't go to
it be she'd been groped in public there and told
the organisers and they did nothing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Other stuff emerges (not about Erlang events,
but who knows):</div>
<div>* top tips for elevator pitches, never go in
an elevator with a VC</div>
<div>* female speakers being jumped on by other
speakers after he said "come up to the room and
I'll give you a copy of my book"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And in all of them, the point is that the
assaulters were continuing on the scene, going
to events, invited as speakers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At that point you start thinking "all my
events were fine, weren't they?" and the answer
is "I don't know".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's what a code of conduct for events is
for. You want all your attendees to come forward
and report problems and know that you will take
them seriously and deal with it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You don't write a supervision tree for the
sake of the processes that don't crash -
something will go wrong and you need to have a
protocol in place.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But its not just codes of conduct.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Started looking at other things like
T-shirts. We all knock out swag t-shirts. Turns
out women won't wear boxy 'unisex' t-shirts
except as pyjamas - and they won't were t-shirts
with slogans across the breast.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As part of the Mostly Functional conference I
was working on an Erlang-to-Javascript called
LuvvieScript - I thought it would be cheery to
have a t-shirt that had across the chest:</div>
<div>./rebar make_luvv</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Needless to say when I asked female friends
about it they pointed out it was an unwearable
perv magnet - walking invitation to creeps. Erk!
Scrapped that plan and that t-shirt.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We produce conference swag that is unwearable
by female members of our community - not really
welcoming.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So Edinburgh is moving towards:</div>
<div>* codes of conducts at TechMeetup and Turing</div>
<div>* moving away from 'compulsory drinking' and
making soft drinks available</div>
<div>* fixing swag</div>
<div>* reaching out to women speakers, other
ignored groups and first time speakers</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We will be doing that this year at the Beam
Me Up Scott.ie conference at Turing</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And that's a good thing.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We've all seen the horrors that have been
unfolding towards prominent women in tech,
particularly on Twitter, the last 6 months, with
death and rape threats, doxxing and swatting.</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I don't think people on this list were
taking part in that, or that harassment
happens - but I would be happier if we made a
collective statement that we have processes in
place and the commitment to follow them
through.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My elderly parents clip newspaper articles
about technology and give them to me. So last
week, that was the clipping I got - about how my
industry was a gynocidal shit pit. That doesn't
make me feel good.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And if my parents know about it, there can't
be a sinner on earth who doesn't share that
opinion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just my 2c</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Gordon</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv5849377358gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="yiv5849377358gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar
13, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Benoit Chesneau <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:bchesneau@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:bchesneau@gmail.com">bchesneau@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="yiv5849377358gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="yiv5849377358gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="yiv5849377358h5">On Fri, Mar
13, 2015 at 4:25 PM Fred Hebert <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:mononcqc@ferd.ca"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:mononcqc@ferd.ca">mononcqc@ferd.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="yiv5849377358gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;">On 03/13,
Loïc Hoguin wrote:<br>
> I see little need for a code of
conduct that basically says "be
nice". It's<br>
> common sense after all.<br>
><br>
<br>
Then the code of conduct shall not
be a problem for you.<br>
<br>
What the code does, however, is put
a context around when and how<br>
someone can be reprimanded on the
list, and for what reasons. It also<br>
gives a path of escalation in case
of disagreement. Without one, this
is<br>
basically left implicit to whoever
is swinging the banhammer, and who<br>
you know or can talk to.<br>
<br>
It sets expectations and context
over what is expected from members<br>
*and* from moderators.<br>
<br>
> > It is pointless to send a
message that only warns about
posting style.<br>
> > If you are trying to point
someone to correct posting style<br>
> > guidelines, please do so
while at least honestly attempting
to answer<br>
> > their questions or
comments. It is generally unhelpful
to give only a<br>
> > warning related to posting
style, as newcomers may feel
unwelcome,<br>
> > only to leave. And that is
exactly what we do not want.<br>
><br>
> That's what you'll inevitably
get now that you made a number of
official<br>
> "rules" for posting style. And
you'll also get the associated frame
wars<br>
> about top and bottom posting.<br>
<br>
Then it goes against the code of
conduct, please don't do that.<br>
Moderation can do its job, as subtle
as it may be to the onlooker, or<br>
you can brin your problems to the
moderators. Their contact info is<br>
listed in the code of conduct.<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Regarding top or bottom posting, I
don't have strong feelings either<br>
way, though I do get annoyed by
gmail users never filtering down the<br>
quoted part of posts yielding
exponentially larger threads when
you use<br>
a client that doesn't fold quotes.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Fred.<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
Why do we need a code of conduct now when
we lived without it for so long? Also
since we are speaking of a community
who/when was discussed that document?
Where can I find a list of the moderators?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also i agree discouraging people to
not do top posting when most modern
client use it as a default sounds weird
and not very welcoming for the new
generation...</div>
<span class="yiv5849377358HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">
<div><br>
- benoit</div>
<div> </div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
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