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<p class="p1">This thread would be much more interesting without all the unproven conjectures that Elixir is obviously the better choice to teach to children.</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">I disagree.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Elixir is a much worse choice to teach to children, because its not a simple language anmore.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>There have been several people teaching Prolog and also Erlang to children.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>So far there is no experience teaching Elixir to the same group.</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">Elixir is mainly appealing to either people comming from Ruby or just for pop culture value (as is Ruby itself).</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">Why does anybody think this makes it mor suitable to teach to kids?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Why talk about not corrupting them with OOP ideas when teaching them programming and at the same time corruping them with crufty Ruby like syntax i.e. the syntax of a OOP language? <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">What advantage does metaprogramming have for teaching kids?</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">Having syntax for rebinding variables?</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">This is all cruft for teaching the actual things.</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">Just picked this one mention to Elixir as an example:</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p1">On 2014-06-16 12:29:32 +0000, Darach Ennis said:</p>
<p class="p2"><br></p>
<p class="p3">A good introductory language is scratch (<a href="http://scratch.mit.edu/"><span class="s1">http://scratch.mit.edu/</span></a>)</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">I agree, so why not build something Scratch like on top of Erlang?</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p3">followed by Python (from about 7 years of age depending on the child, python works very well, the strict syntax is a benefit too).</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">Erlang has a strict syntax too so it would have the same advantage.</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">[... more stuff I agree with detelted]</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p3">With a basic feel for logic, structure and feedback from programming tools (with assistance) then Erlang would be a good next step.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">Still agree.</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p3">Torben is probably right with respect to age group by setting it</p>
<p class="p3">to mid high school level.</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">I think much too old but maybe its right</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Elixir, also, would probably be an easier language to teach and to learn</p>
<p class="p3">with fringe benefits (namely learning Elixir) for some of us...</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">And the argument goes off the rails completely for me:</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">WHY???</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">This is contradictory to what you said before about Python.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Elixirs syntax is more barroque and why in the world is it easier to learn than Erlang syntax (except for Ruby programmers)??</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">Where is the proof?</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">Proofs by pop culture not accepted.</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">BTW what languages are *in* today won't matter for these kids because all pop culture languages will be *out* when those kids you teach them will be in their twenties.</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p3">On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Mahesh Paolini-Subramanya <span class="s2"><<a href="mailto:mahesh@dieswaytoofast.com"><span class="s3">mahesh@dieswaytoofast.com</span></a>></span> wrote:</p>
<p class="p6">The most important thing here I believe is to have a nice collection of simple tasks/problems that are appealing to the target audience and best (easiest/nicest) solved in Erlang. </p>
<p class="p6">Amen!</p>
<p class="p6">The least relevant part of teaching kids programming is the syntax, or the choice of language - they don't, and won't, give a s**t about it. </p>
<p class="p3">As a simple thought experiment, just look at how you raised your kids in a multi-lingual environment (yes my American brethren, this is hard. Pretend :-) ) Notice how they - fluidly - bounce across languages, massacring every grammar rule ever, but quite happily making sure that you understand that "I amn't going to eat pea, <span class="s4">ನಾನು</span> <span class="s4">ತಿನ್ನಲ್ಲ</span>, <span class="s4">ನಾನು</span> <span class="s4">ತಿನ್ನಲ್ಲ</span>, odio odio odio la piselli, i don't wanna, where is my red truck?"</p>
<p class="p3">Mind you, they will pick up the rules over time, but the key here is the importance of the problem at hand ("How To Avoid Eating Peas") - the more immediately relevant it is to the young 'uns, the more rapidly they will pick up the tools, the specifics of the language be damned.</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">100% agree!</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">And BTW this is the Erlang channel, why would we work on our own demise by teaching all these kids Elixir??<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>How would this help the problems Garett was mentioning?</p>
<p class="p4"><br></p>
<p class="p5">Cheers,</p>
<p class="p5">-- Peer</p>
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