<div dir="ltr">That is correct; right now, there are no plans for x32 ABI support.<div><br></div><div>Andreas<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Andreas Schumacher</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andreas.schumacher@ericsson.com">andreas.schumacher@ericsson.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:01 PM<br>Subject: [erlang-questions] Maximising memory compactness<br>To: "<a href="mailto:andreasschu@gmail.com">andreasschu@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:andreasschu@gmail.com">andreasschu@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br><br>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica';color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'">Tuncer Ayaz <<a href="mailto:tuncer.ayaz@gmail.com" target="_blank">tuncer.ayaz@gmail.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica';color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>Subject: </b>
</span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'"><b>Re: [erlang-questions] Maximising memory compactness</b><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica';color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'">4 Apr 2014 20:09:58 GMT+2<br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica';color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'">Andreas Schumacher <<a href="mailto:andreas@erlang.org" target="_blank">andreas@erlang.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px">
<span style="font-family:'Helvetica';color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0)"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'">"<a href="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org" target="_blank">erlang-questions@erlang.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org" target="_blank">erlang-questions@erlang.org</a>><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Andreas Schumacher wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Honestly, we did not measure the number of users, but we made a<br>
rough guess based on the questions, comments, and/or bug reports we<br>
got for the half-word emulator.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm not arguing for or against halfword-emu, as I'm not the designated<br>
maintainer, but it just works and most likely does for everyone else<br>
who has it enabled. I never had a bug caused by it, and on some<br>
machines it's the reason I can use Dialyzer with an amd64 beam.smp.<br>
<br>
If my professional experience with users of code I was responsible for<br>
is any indication, then it's very safe to assume that users only<br>
report bugs. I've learned that users won't even report back if a<br>
hotfix works. Hence, you can't use non-existence of bug reports or<br>
comments as an indication of how widely/successfully something is used.<br>
Some code has vocal users (gamers), most doesn't.<br>
<br>
<br>
As you didn't answer the x32 ABI question, I take that to mean there's<br>
no plan for that. Correct?<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Tuncer Ayaz [<a href="mailto:tuncer.ayaz@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:tuncer.ayaz@gmail.com</a>]<br>
Sent: den 4 april 2014 14:25<br>
To: Andreas Schumacher<br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org" target="_blank">erlang-questions@erlang.org</a>; Olivier BOUDEVILLE<br>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Fwd: FW: Maximising memory compactness<br>
<br>
On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Andreas Schumacher wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">As a matter of fact, the half-word emulator will be deprecated in<br>
OTP 17.0, which will be released next week. The reason for that is<br>
that there have been very few (if any) users; and thus, the<br>
maintenance costs outweigh its value.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
FWIW, I use it. But more importantly, how did you measure the number<br>
of users? For comparison, JVM's compressed oops has been default<br>
enabled for a long time, but to be precise it's not _exactly_ the<br>
same thing.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/vm/performance-enhancements-7.html" target="_blank">http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/vm/performance-enhancements-7.html</a><br>
"Compressed oops is supported and enabled by default in Java SE 6u23<br>
and later. In Java SE 7, use of compressed oops is the default for<br>
64-bit JVM processes when -Xmx isn't specified and for values of<br>
-Xmx less than 32 gigabytes."<br>
<br>
<a href="https://wikis.oracle.com/display/HotSpotInternals/CompressedOops" target="_blank">https://wikis.oracle.com/display/HotSpotInternals/CompressedOops</a><br>
<br>
That said, what about implementing x32 ABI support as an<br>
alternative? As far as I can tell this would have to be explicitly<br>
implemented in HiPE too.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:erlang-questions-bounces@erlang.org" target="_blank">erlang-questions-bounces@erlang.org</a><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:erlang-questions-bounces@erlang.org" target="_blank">erlang-questions-bounces@erlang.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kostis<br>
Sagonas<br>
Sent: den 4 april 2014 11:39<br>
To: Erlang<br>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Maximising memory compactness<br>
<br>
On 04/04/2014 10:33 AM, Olivier BOUDEVILLE wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Let's suppose one would like to run a large, distributed (Erlang)<br>
application, with many processes, and that ends up, in some cases,<br>
being RAM-bound.<br>
...<br>
The half-word emulator would seem the simplest/most elegant solution<br>
to do so ....<br>
<br>
So, my question: would relying on a set of 32-bit VMs per host,<br>
instead of a single 64-bit VM, look like the best option here?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
My opinion is (and has always been) that the half-word emulator<br>
seems cute on the surface but deep down is a bad idea (esp. for a<br>
language with automatic memory management like Erlang, or if your<br>
application has any plans of growing someday).<br>
<br>
So I would really advice against it. In fact, IMO it's better to<br>
try to forget about its existence for anything other than for small<br>
embedded devices or in machines that do not have more than 3GB of<br>
memory.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, I am very busy to elaborate more on this right now.<br>
But even if I had more time, I would probably try to find better<br>
things to do than think/talk about the half-word emulator. Leaning<br>
back and relax until you forget about it (or simply waiting for the<br>
day that it is taken out of the distribution) is preferable IMO.<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div><br></div></div>