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    No, no no Thomas... You can not move away from OTP. It even has its
    official music video:<br>
    <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VjYUnvnTog">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VjYUnvnTog</a><br>
    <br>
    On a serious note, I flagged the issues about the T in Telecom when
    speaking at the Erlang User Conference in 2001. A company in France,
    working on a Jabber proxy, did not use OTP behaviors or even look at
    the documentation because they were not developing Telecom products.
    In the book I'm co-authoring on OTP, the word Telecom will get one
    mention. In the introduction, alongside a rant over why it is called
    that way. In the rest of the chapters, it will be an acronym. (BTW,
    dealing with management and those sitting on the budget on a daily
    basis, I agree in full with Robert. A marketing hat would at times
    help).<br>
    <br>
    Francesco<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 13/02/2014 18:54, Thomas Lindgren
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1392317696.43751.YahooMailNeo@web140106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
      type="cite">
      <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
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        Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
        <div><span>OK, if the acronym drives your managers nuts, fork
            it, rename it (how about "Blue Gorilla", "Customer Yacht" or
            "Uhuru Scalable Mountain") and write in the docs that it's
            based on OTP </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">(tip:
            below the fold)</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;">. I'm
            sure Erlang Solutions can sell your company Blue Gorilla
            training and contractors if you ask them. </span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family:
          HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida
          Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent;
          font-style: normal;"><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family:
          HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida
          Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent;
          font-style: normal;"><span>Best,</span></div>
        <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family:
          HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida
          Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent;
          font-style: normal;"><span>Thomas</span></div>
        <div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <br>
          <br>
          <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
            Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size:
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            <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue',
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              <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Thursday,
                  February 13, 2014 7:16 PM, kraythe .
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kraythe@gmail.com"><kraythe@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br>
                </font> </div>
              <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16,
                255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left:
                5px;">
                <div class="y_msg_container">
                  <div id="yiv8942092287">
                    <div>
                      <div dir="ltr">I have read portions of your book
                        and appreciate your insight. However, I think
                        you underestimate the task here. Convincing
                        developers may be difficult, but if they are
                        good devs they might come around. Convincing
                        management with control over budget and staffing
                        when the naming is wrong? Nearly impossible.
                        Thats why massive advertising companies have
                        made billions off of just naming things
                        correctly. All of the other concerns you posted
                        are very legit and I have had and still do have
                        many of them myself. But those concerns are at
                        the tech level and only of minor interest to the
                        manager wondering why would he staff for erlang
                        and not scala or ruby? </div>
                      <div class="yiv8942092287gmail_extra"><br
                          clear="all">
                        <div>
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div style="font-family: arial; font-size:
                              small;"><b>Robert Simmons Jr. MSc. - Lead
                                Java Architect @ EA</b></div>
                            <div style="font-family: arial; font-size:
                              small;"><i>Author of: Hardcore Java (2003)
                                and Maintainable Java (2012)</i></div>
                            <div><i style="font-family: arial;
                                font-size: small;">LinkedIn: </i><font
                                face="arial"><i><a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-simmons/40/852/a39">http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-simmons/40/852/a39</a></i></font></div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br clear="none">
                        <br clear="none">
                        <div class="yiv8942092287yqt6092334291"
                          id="yiv8942092287yqtfd50324">
                          <div class="yiv8942092287gmail_quote">On Thu,
                            Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Fred Hebert <span
                              dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                ymailto="mailto:mononcqc@ferd.ca"
                                target="_blank"
                                href="mailto:mononcqc@ferd.ca">mononcqc@ferd.ca</a>></span>
                            wrote:<br clear="none">
                            <blockquote class="yiv8942092287gmail_quote"
                              style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
                              #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
                              Answers inline.<br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                On 02/13, kraythe . wrote:<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > I Guess my answers would be:<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 0) If there is a business case, you
                                can convince them. Low adoption hurts<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > their maintainability and staffing
                                much more than it does for the startup<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > or small company. They are a
                                business, not a bunch of unreasonable
                                oafs.<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              That may be doable. I'm not saying the
                              opposite.<br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 1) Why rewrite the libs if you use
                                the same initials. I wouldn't worry<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > about that. The programming world
                                is replete with examples of such things.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              If we can use the same initials, then
                              that's gained and removes a bunch<br
                                clear="none">
                              of issues.<br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 2) and updating the docs will take
                                ... 10 man hours? Do we not have search<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > and replace capable tools?<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 3) Same answer as 2.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              Yes, but we do not have administration
                              rights to mirrors, say<br clear="none">
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
                                shape="rect" target="_blank"
                                href="http://erldocs.com/">http://erldocs.com/</a>
                              and translations that can be hosted by the<br
                                clear="none">
                              community.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              The work done with the OTP documentation
                              goes further than the OTP team<br
                                clear="none">
                              itself.<br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 4) Dont need to "make sure" of
                                anything. If the books want to be
                                accurate<br clear="none">
                                > they will use the new name, if not
                                "shrug" thats their problem. Trust me<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > someone on amazon will post "Its
                                not called Open Telecom Platform since<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 2014, it stands for "Open
                                Technology Platform". There are enough
                                pedantic,<br clear="none">
                                > basement living, people on the
                                internet that will annoy authors into<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > submission.<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              That doesn't sound like a pleasant
                              experience for everyone. Again, it's<br
                                clear="none">
                              not an insurmountable challenge. It's just
                              one more challenge.<br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 5) Small matter of documentation.
                                "It used to be called X but was renamed<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > to Y in 2014"<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              Documentation lives on way longer than
                              expected. People still read and<br
                                clear="none">
                              order reprints of the Erlang book
                              published in 1994 (and 1996 for the<br
                                clear="none">
                              second edition), some of which are
                              translations.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              Many older versions of books are what is
                              in libraries and whatnot, since<br
                                clear="none">
                              Joe's first version in early 2000s. For
                              people using these versions, you<br
                                clear="none">
                              end up with inaccurate terminology
                              regarding half the name of the<br
                                clear="none">
                              language.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              It's a matter of documentation, but it's a
                              matter of trying to do it<br clear="none">
                              right to reduce the amount of confusion.
                              If people look for "Open<br clear="none">
                              Telecom Platform Erlang" it would be sweet
                              to get the new documentation<br
                                clear="none">
                              and content.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              Maybe it's easy, but it's still part of a
                              roadmap.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              Alternatively, would 'Open Telecom
                              Platform, a framework that is not<br
                                clear="none">
                              just about telecoms' going to be more
                              cumbersome in documentation?<br
                                clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 6) History is history. Those
                                investigating the language will get it.
                                It<br clear="none">
                                > startedo ut being a telecoms thing
                                and migrated to a general language. No<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > problem. Live web sites can easily
                                add in blurbs. Old articles will be out<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > of date but not from the time frame
                                of when they were written. No big deal.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > The sky isnt actually falling.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              I could see that being made as a decision,
                              yes.<br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 7) Obviously this one is just
                                frothing. The man could update the next<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > version of his book with more
                                information, cool tricks, whatever and
                                sell<br clear="none">
                                > it as a second edition.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              Yes. I like to insert a bit of non-serious
                              content here and there.<br clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 8) What "traditional SDK" are you
                                referring to? The LISP standard lib? ;-)<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > Java? C? Ruby? Haskell? Which one
                                is the "normal" one? Normal is defined
                                in<br clear="none">
                                > the context of the language, not in
                                the context of another language? In<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > fact the vast majority of SDKs for
                                java are third party to the JDK itself<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > anyway.<br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              I went from this thread's usage of SDK as
                              a similar point to OTP.<br clear="none">
                              Erlang/SDK if you will. If you want to
                              keep it as Erlang/OTP, that can<br
                                clear="none">
                              work, but needs to be significantly better
                              than what it is right now to<br
                                clear="none">
                              have an actually measurable impact.<br
                                clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              Otherwise, we're throwing stuff at the
                              wall to see what sticks, with no<br
                                clear="none">
                              proof that it actually helped anything.<br
                                clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > 9) Trying to crystal ball the
                                future will only give you a headache.
                                The key<br clear="none">
                                > is to move from where yo are to a
                                point where progress has been made and<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > recursively loop on that algorithm,
                                not be paralyzed by "what if .... ?"<br
                                  clear="none">
                                ><br clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              Non-serious content here also. Not to be
                              taken seriously, but I wouldn't<br
                                clear="none">
                              be surprised if it were to happen.<br
                                clear="none">
                              <div class="yiv8942092287"><br
                                  clear="none">
                                > You may have been doing Erlang for
                                ages and feel quite the man but the<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > question really boils down to "what
                                would you like for the future of Erlang<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > to be?" If the answer to that in
                                your mind is "A niche language that I
                                can<br clear="none">
                                > call myself a guru at and everyone
                                looks at me quizzically and puts up with<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > my eccentricity or dare say
                                arrogance." then the current name and
                                trend is<br clear="none">
                                > fine. If the answer is, "A powerful
                                general purpose programming language<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > for developing applications using
                                functional paradigms and widely accepted<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > as being the solution to the next
                                generation of software problems." Then<br
                                  clear="none">
                                > marketing is important.<br
                                  clear="none">
                                <br clear="none">
                              </div>
                              Oh I love that one. I want Erlang to be
                              adopted so much I wrote an<br clear="none">
                              entire book about it and put it online for
                              free, without advertisement.<br
                                clear="none">
                              This has taken over 3 years of my spare
                              time, because I wanted Erlang to<br
                                clear="none">
                              be more accessible. I invite you to visit
                              it at<br clear="none">
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
                                shape="rect" target="_blank"
                                href="http://learnyousomeerlang.com/">http://learnyousomeerlang.com</a>,
                              and maybe buy an ebook or print copy if<br
                                clear="none">
                              you feel like it would be nicer to read
                              that way. If you prefer a free<br
                                clear="none">
                              electronic copies, there are scripts on
                              github to convert it to the<br
                                clear="none">
                              kindle format, and a wget line in the FAQ
                              to download a local copy.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              I also kept writing multiple blog posts at
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
                                shape="rect" target="_blank"
                                href="http://ferd.ca/">http://ferd.ca</a>
                              that guide and<br clear="none">
                              show more tutorials about Erlang, use
                              cases, and tries to sell it as a<br
                                clear="none">
                              language as a whole.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              The reason I'm answering to your
                              suggestion negatively isn't that I<br
                                clear="none">
                              don't want Erlang to succeed, it's that I
                              do not believe that changing<br
                                clear="none">
                              the meaning of 'OTP' from 'Open Telecom
                              Platform' to 'Open Technology<br
                                clear="none">
                              Platform' will have a noticeable impact.<br
                                clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              Some people do ask the question 'but I
                              don't want to do telecoms', but<br
                                clear="none">
                              in my experience, people's issues are the
                              following, to a much higher<br
                                clear="none">
                              degree:<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              - The syntax is unfamiliar (or ugly)<br
                                clear="none">
                              - It's difficult to work with single
                              assignment, recursion, immutable<br
                                clear="none">
                                algorithms (most of your algorithm books
                              that rely on arrays with O(1)<br
                                clear="none">
                                access to work fine are no longer going
                              to be trivial to translate!<br
                                clear="none">
                                That's huge!)<br clear="none">
                              - The tooling (rebar, relx, etc.) isn't up
                              to par with other languages,<br
                                clear="none">
                                even if it keeps getting better.<br
                                clear="none">
                              - Lack of IDEs (that was your prime
                              concern when you joined these lists)<br
                                clear="none">
                              - Fighting the idea that "it will be hard
                              to hire Erlang developers" to<br
                                clear="none">
                                make it enter and stay in the
                              enterprise.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              All of those criticism, in the years I've
                              been in the Erlang community,<br
                                clear="none">
                              have come up time and time again. They've
                              also have come up orders of<br
                                clear="none">
                              magnitude more often than OTP as a name,
                              even if it does come up from<br
                                clear="none">
                              time to time.<br clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              I'm sorry I came up as harsh. I do want
                              better adoption for Erlang and<br
                                clear="none">
                              took months if not years of my free time
                              working that way. I do not<br clear="none">
                              think renaming OTP is worth the effort,
                              but I'll be glad to be proven<br
                                clear="none">
                              wrong through bigger adoption if someone
                              steps up and decides to do it.<br
                                clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              Now if you please, I'll go back to
                              spending my lunch time working on an<br
                                clear="none">
                              post-scripted chapter to the LYSE site
                              introducing maps to people.<br
                                clear="none">
                              <br clear="none">
                              Regards,<br clear="none">
                              Fred.<br clear="none">
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
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                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <div class="yqt6092334291" id="yqtfd76677">_______________________________________________<br
                      clear="none">
                    erlang-questions mailing list<br clear="none">
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true" shape="rect"
                      ymailto="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org"
                      href="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org">erlang-questions@erlang.org</a><br
                      clear="none">
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true" shape="rect"
                      href="http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions"
                      target="_blank">http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions</a><br
                      clear="none">
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
erlang-questions mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:erlang-questions@erlang.org">erlang-questions@erlang.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions">http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Erlang Solutions Ltd.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.erlang-solutions.com">http://www.erlang-solutions.com</a></pre>
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