[erlang-questions] Rhetorical structure of code: Anyone interested in collaborating?

Grzegorz Junka <>
Thu May 5 17:48:31 CEST 2016


Thanks for sharing. From that short article to me it seems that the SICP 
curriculum was taking a similar approach to programming as the waterfall 
model, and programming by poking is an approach similar to the Agile 
methodology. Agile is all about prototyping, implementing a minimum 
amount of code to get the desired result, and iterating (it's much more, 
of course, according to the Agile manifesto, but in this comparison I am 
only concerned with similarities).

Greg


On 05/05/2016 14:51, Lloyd R. Prentice wrote:
> Pertinent to the discussion:
>
>
>     PROGRAMMING BY POKING: WHY MIT STOPPED TEACHING SICP
>
> http://www.posteriorscience.net/?p=206
>
> Best wishes,
>
> LRP
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On May 5, 2016, at 6:07 AM, Vlad Dumitrescu < 
> <mailto:>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Richard A. O'Keefe < 
>> <mailto:>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     On 4/05/16 6:49 PM, Vlad Dumitrescu wrote:
>>
>>
>>         I don't disagree with you, it's just that for projects larger
>>         than toys, I don't know how to browse the history for
>>         something that i don't know what it looks like and that might
>>         or might not be there. Taking erlide as an example, there are
>>         6000 files in 7000 commits in the main branch, going back
>>         13-14 years and if i would have saved all experiments I'd
>>         probably have a tree of at least 5 times that much. I am
>>         certain that I wouldn't be able to find anything faster than
>>         I would write it again from scratch.
>>
>>
>>     With 6000 files of totally unfamiliar code, there's no way I
>>     could find
>>     anything without a map and ground approach radar. (find . -type
>>     -f -print |
>>     wc  actually counts 2774 files; it did report 6186 before I got
>>     rid of all
>>     the '._*' junk files you get on a Mac.)  OK, so 1344 Java files,
>>     38 Erlang
>>     files, 2 Ruby files, 1 XSLT file, and 50-odd Xtend files (which I
>>     can't read
>>     yet), even hamcrest (oh don't get me started on hamcrest)...
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I think I forgot to filter out the binary files. Anyway, the 
>> point was that at that size, having a multitude of alternative 
>> histories, many of which might not be relevant at all any more, it 
>> gets exponentially harder to be able to find anything in there.
>>
>>     With the ._* junk removed, I measure 33.6 MB.  This one Eclipse
>>     plugin
>>     is bigger than the whole Quintus Prolog system, including manuals.
>>
>>     Not only that, it's more than half the size of Pharo, which is a
>>     complete
>>     Smalltalk system including the refactoring browser. There seems to be
>>     something about Java that forces systems to grow exceeding large.
>>
>>
>> Yes, and most of the important stuff (the Erlang implementation of 
>> the kernel functionality) is located in another repository. I also 
>> had to include some third party libraries as sources, in order to not 
>> depend on external stuff whose availability was unreliable.
>>
>>         We would need an index of the important experiments, with a
>>         reason why they didn't were chosen for implementation and
>>         maybe a brief description of the design, and a reference to
>>         the commits. This requires a lot of discipline to maintain
>>         (especially when a team is working on the project, with each
>>         person doing its own experiments).
>>
>>
>>     Such a thing would, however, be extraordinarily useful for
>>     someone in my
>>     position, with NO idea of where to look for ANYTHING, and a dead
>>     link to
>>     documentation.  The README.md file contains this line:
>>
>>         Documentation may be found at
>>         [the project site](http://erlide.org/erlide.html).
>>
>>     That site isn't supposed to expire until next year, but right now
>>     it's not
>>     accessible. So yeah, I'd find lots of history very helpful. And
>>     lots of
>>
>>     advice for the traveller.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for pointing that out, I fixed the link. I will try to keep 
>> such a high-level history from now on, I'm sure there will be a lot 
>> to learn for myself too.
>>
>> best regards,
>> Vlad
>>
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