[erlang-questions] Misultin EOL

Joe Armstrong <>
Sat Feb 18 11:39:50 CET 2012


On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Tim Watson <> wrote:
> On 17 February 2012 02:09, Steve Davis <>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Roberto,
>>
>> I'm a bit confused by this whole thread...
>>
>> I'm agreeing with Jesse that since Misultin is open source, it's not
>> really in your control to "stop development" if the interest is there
>> elsewhere to push it on?
>>
>> I'm also agreeing with Steve that I've not seen any demonstration that
>> yaws is somehow "lacking",
>>
>> For me, the last interesting benchmark that demonstrated anything
>> graspably real was "yaws vs apache".
>>
>> A really interesting benchmark for today's "web server" would be, if
>> someone were willing to engage in a non-trivial effort, to make a
>> comparison of a full-fledged web application with full session
>> management and routing capabilities. Note that this would truly test
>> the appropriateness of the server's http APIs as well as the base
>> response. That kind of benchmark, for me, would seem more appropriate
>> and useful according to the epoch.
>
>
> I've been suggesting this for some time now. I will make some time (somehow)
> to participate and I'm sure others will too.

Yes ^ 100

My *minimal* application does this for *every* GET request

   1) Is there a cookie?
   2) If no cookie redirect to a set-cookie page
   3) if there is a cookie lookup value in database
   4) if no value in DB redirect to warning page
   5) if there is a value check if user is authenticated
   6) if not authenticated redirect to login page
   7) if authenticated lookup same basic data about user
       in DB
   8) send the result

I suspect that impedance mismatches between the DB and
web server are the main sources of inefficiency

The *interesting* benchmark is (say) the number of
page-views in a forum/second or the number of searches/second in a forum.

We need to implement something like PHPBB and benchmark the number of
page-views/second
(Actually doing so would involve even more work before a page gets
sent - is the IP blacklisted? - has the user
posted more than N requests in the last T seconds -
is the user a spammer...)

One thing that hinders this is the lack of a common language
to implement the web-part in. I have made a little language
EHE for this - which included in my adapter pattern - EHE is
easy to embed in *any* erlang web server - I have done so
for misultin, cowboy and mochiweb see

   https://github.com/joearms/adapter_pattern

The database for something like a web forum needs
investigation:


I want a data base with the following characteristics

   - persistent
   - Key-Value
   - fast lookups
   - slow writes
   - full-text indexing of certain fields of certain key-types

In a forum type application the read-write ratio is heavily
skewed in favor of reads - ie lots of reads very few writes.

I am making a systems where all keys-values are stored in
an ets table.

Reads go to the ets table, writes go to the ets table and are trailed
on disk. I guess I'd also like large values on disk
small values in the ets table. Oh and I'd also like full-text indexing
on tuple fields. ie if I say

    store({post,12456},#item{user="joe", text="......"})

Id like to automatically index the text field of the record.

No erlang database I know of fits the bill - I don't want
an interface to mySQL or whatever since I suspect the impedance
mismatch between Erlang and the external
database would be terrible.

Summary:

    In addition to a fast web-server we need

    - a fast persistent DB suitable for web applications
    - zero impedance mismatch between the DB and the web server
   - a language for the application (like PHP) (you'll find my
     EHE at https://github.com/joearms/adapter_pattern)
   - authentication

All these bits have to fit together with bridges (adapters) so
we can change the database/server/authentication without
having to rewrite the entire application.

Do this and *then* benchmark against PHPBB (or something)

Cheers

/Joe
>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> /s
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