[erlang-questions] newbie web-development advice / guidance

Rapsey <>
Wed Aug 3 22:35:58 CEST 2011


Yeah I never liked nitrogen records either. I don't know how others build
sites, but at my company the client side steps are always:
photoshop file  -> create html/css -> convert to templates and write
javascript

Using django templates makes complete sense when you're starting from an
html file. It does not take that much work at all and requires very little
programming knowledge. If you change anything, it's not difficult to put the
changes in the template, because they are so similar.
If we used nitrogen, it would take significantly more work and the person
doing it, would need to learn something completely unnatural if he did not
know erlang already.


Sergej

On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Icarus Alive <> wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:50 PM, OvermindDL1 <> wrote:
> >
> > I am curious, how is ChicagoBoss compared to Nitrogen?
>
> Haven't experienced Nitrogen long enough to make a good objective
> comparison. Just that there was something about Nitrogen Records, that
> seemed -- verbose and intimidating. Also, found it somewhat difficult
> to imagine how that syntax maps to the generated HTML. On the
> contrary, I found ErlyDTL very simple, once I saw the CB
> video-tutorials on youtube. Also the MVC constructs were a bit easier
> for me to follow in case of ChicagoBoss. The admin-interface was
> dead-simple. Finally, I found the tutorial for ChicagoBoss to be
> short, to-the-point, very simple/lucid and achieved something concrete
> I understood. The documentation get me functional quite quickly, and
> in fact, there wasn't very much to read. While it might take a lot
> more to become an expert, I felt that I could get up-n-running (from
> zero) with CB much sooner.
>
> > On Aug 2, 2011 11:31 PM, "Icarus Alive" <> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:54 AM, Benson Wong <>
> wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> My background is a web developer (~15 years), done PHP for about 11
> >>> years.
> >>> So I know it pretty well.
> >>> Just starting to learn Erlang. Done lots of javascript (jQuery,
> node.js,
> >>> etc). So a PHP developer, in the Erlang pool here :)
> >>> I think an imperative language like PHP would be a lot easier (and more
> >>> agile) to build the web app in than Erlang. I would choose erlang if I
> >>> need
> >>> long lived connections (web sockets, long-poll, etc). Frameworks like
> >>> Django
> >>> (Python)/Rails (ruby) would also make life easier.
> >>> If you want scalability/reliability/performance, add more PHP processes
> /
> >>> servers.
> >>> PHP is shared nothing, so it is easy to scale. Just add more. Using
> Nginx
> >>> +
> >>> PHP-FPM. Solves a lot of slow request issues.
> >>> Put them behind an HTTP load balancer, HAProxy is a very popular
> choice.
> >>> Performance is usually database bound than it is app server bound.
> >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Icarus Alive <>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Would appreciate if my thread wasn't hijacked :-)... although gotta
> >>>> agree that our scenarios are quite similar.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Banibrata Dutta
> >>>> <> wrote:
> >>>> > Thanks @Marc, for taking time to reply this this mail.
> >>>> > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 5:38 PM, Marc Worrell <>
> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> It mostly depends on what kind of web development you want to do.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Is it more of a mobile application than a publishing web site?
> >>>>
> >>>> In my case, content characteristics are:
> >>>> 1. Always originating from single source
> >>>> 2. Always consumed by single user
> >>>> 3. Content has short lifetime - once consumed, will be archived
> >>>> 4. Each user has several hundreds of content display to her in "newest
> >>>> first" fashion
> >>>>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Does is have specific authentication schemes?
> >>>> >> Etc. Etc.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Honestly, haven't given this enough thought. One of the requirements
> >>>> > is
> >>>> > to
> >>>> > ensure privacy of user data, and that of the interaction. I'm yet to
> >>>> > figure
> >>>> > out the "how" part.
> >>>
> >>> Security/Privacy, this is more of an operation and application design
> >>> than
> >>> it is a Erlang/OTP vs PHP/Ruby/Python+framework.
> >>> Generally you'd want to:
> >>> * firewalls, no SSH access, web servers are only web servers, ie: only
> >>> port
> >>> 443 open.
> >>> * use cookie based sessions. Don't use HTTP basic authentication.
> >>> * Server has controls all access based on the cookie.
> >>> * Use HTTPS. Always.
> >>> * There are lots of other techniques:
> >>> -- use bcrypt for passwords
> >>> -- sessions can be limited to one IP address at a time
> >>> -- sessions have short expire times (controlled on the server)
> >>> -- etc.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Well in my case it has to be some strong authentication. Storage,
> >>>> archival and access has to conform to HIPAA compliance. So we know we
> >>>> are dealing with EMR type content.
> >>
> >> Hi Benson,
> >>
> >> Really appreciate your descriptive & informative response, especially
> >> so for the part on security.
> >>
> >> My inclination towards Erlang stems from the fact that I was intending
> >> to do much of the backend in Erlang as well. The backend does lot of
> >> other things than just bridging between FE client request/responses
> >> and a DB, s.a. converting content format, managing archival policies,
> >> do some data analysis for reporting etc. Maybe some of that via ports.
> >>
> >> I wish I'd seen your mail few days back, because having tried both
> >> Nitrogen and Zotonic, which are I am sure excellent products, I think
> >> I've found peace in settling for ChicagoBoss. I found it lot easier to
> >> work with, as a beginner, maybe because the FP guts are almost hidden
> >> away from sight, and much of the developer/user coding is done in an
> >> imperative fashion. Also, I found it's documentation (although quite
> >> light) to be simple & just-enough to get me started and get me going.
> >>
> >> However, I might have to come back to PHP unless I am able to train my
> >> team on Erlang. Being a beginner, I find it hard to imagine being a
> >> good teacher / coach for rest of the team.
> >>
> >> Thanks again, everyone, for responding on this thread.
> >>
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