[erlang-questions] Programming Erlang on Pragmatic Bookshelf

kgi9020 <>
Sun Mar 4 19:40:03 CET 2007


Another thank you on the book
I got it yesterday and going through it think references pdf that are  
already out there would on the history

Däcker, B. (2000). Concurrent functional programming for  
telecommunications: A
case study of technology introduction. pdf, Computer Communication  
System
Laboratory Department of Teleinformatics Royal Institute of Technology
Stockholm, SWEDEN, Sweden.
Is a very good read


On Mar 4, 2007, at 4:21 AM,  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Programming Erlang on Pragmatic Bookshelf (Bob Ippolito)
>    2. Re: [Erlyaws-list] String Support,	The most needed feature
>       (Bob Ippolito)
>    3. Re: [Erlyaws-list] String Support,	The most needed feature
>       ()
>    4. Re: Programming Erlang on Pragmatic Bookshelf (Brian Olsen)
>    5. Re: Programming Erlang on Pragmatic Bookshelf (Bob Ippolito)
>    6. Re: [Erlyaws-list] String Support, The most needed feature
>       (Kostis Sagonas)
>    7. Erlang book (Marc van Woerkom)
>    8. Re: Programming Erlang on Pragmatic Bookshelf (Micka?l R?mond)
>
> From: "Bob Ippolito" <>
> Date: March 3, 2007 2:40:56 PM CST
> To: "Tobias Löfgren" <>
> Cc: Erlang <>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Programming Erlang on Pragmatic  
> Bookshelf
>
>
> I bought it as soon as I heard about it yesterday as well. It's
> definitely the best resource I've seen so far, hands down. In fact,
> before the book, I always pointed people at Joe's thesis... because
> that's what made Erlang really "click" for me.
>
> Unfortunately the parts of the book that I really wanted to read was
> about 25% of the 30% that's not yet available in the beta. I'm really
> looking forward to the rest of it, and I'll be recommending the book
> to *everyone* who wants to learn Erlang.
>
> -bob
>
> On 3/3/07, Tobias Löfgren <> wrote:
>> I bought it as soon as I saw it was available!
>>
>> I've only skimmed through it so far but it looks absolutely  
>> excellent. It
>> looks like the book I wish I had when I started out experimenting  
>> with
>> Erlang, but even as a now moderately experienced Erlang-programmer  
>> it seems
>> to contain an interesting breadth of information that I've missed  
>> out on
>> when teaching myself Erlang through the standard documentation and
>> experimenting.
>>
>> It will be a welcome addition to my library when the final paper  
>> version is
>> ready!
>>
>> /Tobias
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/3/07, Joe Armstrong < > wrote:
>> > Wonderful - you can read a little about it in
>> >
>> >
>> http://armstrongonsoftware.blogspot.com/2007/03/hasta-la-vista- 
>> baby.html
>> >
>> > /Joe
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3/3/07, Thomas Lindgren <> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > --- Dmitrii 'Mamut' Dimandt <>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> http://pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/jaerlang/index.html
>> > > >
>> > > > Is this it? Is this THE book? Cant' wait! Can't
>> > > > wait!
>> > >
>> > > Cool. I'll get a copy. It's not like my shelves
>> > > overflow with Erlang books.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Thomas
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
>> _______________
>> > > Want to start your own business?
>> > > Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
>> > > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > erlang-questions mailing list
>> > > 
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>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > erlang-questions mailing list
>> > 
>> > http://www.erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> 
>> http://www.erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
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>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Bob Ippolito" <>
> Date: March 3, 2007 2:46:10 PM CST
> To: CyBerHigh <>
> Cc: , 
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] [Erlyaws-list] String Support, The  
> most needed feature
>
>
> On 3/3/07, CyBerHigh <> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 3/3/07, Martin Logan <> wrote:
>> > What exactly did you find so difficult that it was easier to  
>> reinvent
>> > one of the major benefits of Erlang with Python rather than to  
>> suffer
>> > through that element of string handling?
>> >
>> > On 3/3/07, CyBerHigh < > wrote:
>> > > This is my own personal view of erlang.
>> > >
>> > > Erlang is going to be left far behind because it is liking  
>> only one
>> feature,
>> > > true String support.  All modern languages have an abstraction  
>> layer
>> over
>> > > strings except for erlang.  If you want to have a popular  
>> language you
>> need
>> > > it.  I love every feature of erlang and its coding style but I  
>> hate the
>> fact
>> > > that I cannot handle strings very easly and that strings take  
>> up huge
>> > > amounts of memory.  In fact I was attempting to user erlang  
>> for my
>> project
>> > > but found that handling strings was so much work that it was  
>> easier to
>> use
>> > > other languages like python with stackless then create my own rcp
>> interface.
>> > >  Which is now pretty similar to erlang without all the nice  
>> coding
>> styles of
>> > > erlang.
>> > >
>> > > Is there any movement to create a better string interface?   
>> Cause I
>> would
>> > > love to come back to erlang and use it and get the name out  
>> there more
>> than
>> > > it is currently but untill there is such a thing I just can't  
>> find
>> myself
>> > > using it.
>> > >
>> > > Thank you
>> > > CyberHigh
>> > >
>> > >
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ----
>> > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> > > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance  
>> to share
>> your
>> > > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and  
>> earn cash
>> > >
>> http://www.techsay.com/default.php? 
>> page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Erlyaws-list mailing list
>> > > 
>> > >
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/erlyaws-list
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>> Python is very good with string.  In fact I enjoy its string  
>> syntax more
>> than perl and other string processing languages.  I am not actually
>> reinventing anything, stackless offers message passing and  
>> microthreads just
>> like erlang.  I am moving to a more erlang style of code but doing  
>> so is not
>> requiring much work.  I just feel there is no reason why I need to  
>> actually
>> think of a string as a list of characters, unless I am in c.  It  
>> is nice
>> that I don't need to have end of string characters but I feel that  
>> elangs
>> biggest short coming is the fact that strings are not the easiest  
>> thing to
>> handle.  Erlang should be able to act like a string processing  
>> language,
>> offering easy to use things like regular expressions quick split  
>> operations
>> and other nice string tools.  Just seems like that would be a big  
>> priority
>> to be able to compete with all of these new languages popping up  
>> and are
>> started to implement erlang's good things.  Python is even started  
>> to get a
>> on-the-fly programming model which erlang has.  Plus there are  
>> tools to be
>> able to do it in just about any popular language now a days.  So  
>> the list of
>> things that erlang has that others don't is becoming short.   
>> Erlang still
>> seems to have it implemented better than other languages, but it  
>> missing
>> string handling capability's that other languages do so well that  
>> they
>> almost make up for the erlangs slight betterment of implantation.
>>
>> Is there something I am missing about erlangs string capability's,  
>> or is
>> there a movement to add better methods to erlang?
>
> Your complaints about Erlang's string handling are really vague.
> Regular expressions and split operations are available in the stdlib.
> What are you really missing?
>
> As far as memory goes... if you actually have a problem with the
> overhead of lists-as-strings there's always binaries and iolist. The
> syntax is a bit uglier and there's not really much stdlib support for
> that, but I've seen libraries floating around that have a string ops
> that work on binaries.
>
> -bob
>
>
>
>
> From: 
> Date: March 3, 2007 2:54:24 PM CST
> To: CyBerHigh <>
> Cc: , 
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] [Erlyaws-list] String Support, The  
> most needed feature
>
>
> I'm not sure if Erlang is necessarily lacking anything in the  
> string department, but the problem is probably based more around  
> how to actually deal with strings.  In many popular language (not  
> Haskell has the same concept of strings that Erlang does, for the  
> most part), accessing an element of a string is O(1) but in Erlang  
> it is O(n). To me this means that when you do things with strings  
> you are generally going to have to do them in terms of tail ends.   
> What I mean by this is in Python you mind do idx = mystring.find 
> (foo)  And you get an idx and go there and work with it.  In Erlang  
> this would become mylist = find(mystring, foo), and find would  
> return the remaining list so you can work across the string.
> This has the most obvious problem of not allowing you to go  
> backwards through the string, so you can't find things prior to  
> some landmark you are working for.
>
> That said, I do sometimes think perhaps a container that has O(1)  
> random access time might be nice in Erlang.  In Haskell we have  
> Array which works wonderful for those situations.  In Erlang the  
> closest we have is a Binary which is limited to bytes as far as I  
> can tell so I wouldn't call it a true container.
>
> So the conclusion I'm trying to reach is, Erlang doesn't need a  
> string layer, it needs a new container for these kind of situations.
>
>
> On Mar 3, 2007, at 2:39 PM, CyBerHigh wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 3/3/07, Martin Logan <> wrote: What  
>> exactly did you find so difficult that it was easier to reinvent
>> one of the major benefits of Erlang with Python rather than to suffer
>> through that element of string handling?
>>
>> On 3/3/07, CyBerHigh < > wrote:
>> > This is my own personal view of erlang.
>> >
>> > Erlang is going to be left far behind because it is liking only  
>> one feature,
>> > true String support.  All modern languages have an abstraction  
>> layer over
>> > strings except for erlang.  If you want to have a popular  
>> language you need
>> > it.  I love every feature of erlang and its coding style but I  
>> hate the fact
>> > that I cannot handle strings very easly and that strings take up  
>> huge
>> > amounts of memory.  In fact I was attempting to user erlang for  
>> my project
>> > but found that handling strings was so much work that it was  
>> easier to use
>> > other languages like python with stackless then create my own  
>> rcp interface.
>> >  Which is now pretty similar to erlang without all the nice  
>> coding styles of
>> > erlang.
>> >
>> > Is there any movement to create a better string interface?   
>> Cause I would
>> > love to come back to erlang and use it and get the name out  
>> there more than
>> > it is currently but untill there is such a thing I just can't  
>> find myself
>> > using it.
>> >
>> > Thank you
>> > CyberHigh
>> >
>> >  
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ----
>> > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
>> > Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance  
>> to share your
>> > opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn  
>> cash
>> > http://www.techsay.com/default.php? 
>> page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Erlyaws-list mailing list
>> > 
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/erlyaws-list
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Python is very good with string.  In fact I enjoy its string  
>> syntax more than perl and other string processing languages.  I am  
>> not actually reinventing anything, stackless offers message  
>> passing and microthreads just like erlang.  I am moving to a more  
>> erlang style of code but doing so is not requiring much work.  I  
>> just feel there is no reason why I need to actually think of a  
>> string as a list of characters, unless I am in c.  It is nice that  
>> I don't need to have end of string characters but I feel that  
>> elangs biggest short coming is the fact that strings are not the  
>> easiest thing to handle.  Erlang should be able to act like a  
>> string processing language, offering easy to use things like  
>> regular expressions quick split operations and other nice string  
>> tools.  Just seems like that would be a big priority to be able to  
>> compete with all of these new languages popping up and are started  
>> to implement erlang's good things.  Python is even started to get  
>> a on-the-fly programming model which erlang has.  Plus there are  
>> tools to be able to do it in just about any popular language now a  
>> days.  So the list of things that erlang has that others don't is  
>> becoming short.  Erlang still seems to have it implemented better  
>> than other languages, but it missing string handling capability's  
>> that other languages do so well that they almost make up for the  
>> erlangs slight betterment of implantation.
>>
>> Is there something I am missing about erlangs string capability's,  
>> or is there a movement to add better methods to erlang?
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> 
>> http://www.erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
>
>
>
>
> From: "Brian Olsen" <>
> Date: March 3, 2007 3:03:51 PM CST
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Programming Erlang on Pragmatic  
> Bookshelf
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I suppose I am in the position as everyone else is here: I bought the
> book right away once I saw this email.
>
> I am still on Chapter 1, and even though I know what I am reading
> already, I really like the very sort of minimal voice when describing
> the language. I really look forward on the chapters about OTP, in
> interest to get an even better understanding of it.
>
> I think that even though this has already been mentioned on the site's
> errata page from someone, I think a short introduction to the why's of
> Erlang would be nice. I mean, if someone is picking up the book, they
> already know Erlang, but it seems nice anyway.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
> From: "Bob Ippolito" <>
> Date: March 3, 2007 3:18:16 PM CST
> To: "Brian Olsen" <>
> Cc: 
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Programming Erlang on Pragmatic  
> Bookshelf
>
>
> Yeah, some of the history of and justification for Erlang from Joe's
> thesis would probably make sense in the beginning of the book... to
> really hammer home why someone would bother with Erlang, and why it
> turned out looking the way it does.
>
> -bob
>
> On 3/3/07, Brian Olsen <> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I suppose I am in the position as everyone else is here: I bought the
>> book right away once I saw this email.
>>
>> I am still on Chapter 1, and even though I know what I am reading
>> already, I really like the very sort of minimal voice when describing
>> the language. I really look forward on the chapters about OTP, in
>> interest to get an even better understanding of it.
>>
>> I think that even though this has already been mentioned on the  
>> site's
>> errata page from someone, I think a short introduction to the  
>> why's of
>> Erlang would be nice. I mean, if someone is picking up the book, they
>> already know Erlang, but it seems nice anyway.
>>
>> Brian
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> 
>> http://www.erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>
>
>
>
>
> From: Kostis Sagonas <>
> Date: March 3, 2007 4:07:06 PM CST
> To: 
> Cc: , 
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] [Erlyaws-list] String Support, The  
> most needed feature
>
>
>  wrote:
>> ... SNIP ...  In Erlang the closest we  have is a Binary which is  
>> limited to bytes as far as I can tell
>
> No, it is not anymore:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> -
> Erlang (BEAM) emulator version 5.5.3 [source] [async-threads:0]  
> [hipe] [kernel-poll:false]
>
> Eshell V5.5.3  (abort with ^G)
> 1> <<X:2,Y:3,_/bitstr>> = <<63:7>>.
> <<63:7>>
> 2> X.
> 1
> 3> Y.
> 7
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Coming soon to an Erlang shell near you ;-)
>
> Kostis
>
>
>
>
> From: Marc van Woerkom <>
> Date: March 4, 2007 4:21:30 AM CST
> To: Erlang Questions <>
> Subject: [erlang-questions] Erlang book
>
>
> I'm impressed by the choice of the publishing company.
> ZOMG this is good news.
>
>  http://www.pragmaticprogrammer.com/titles/jaerlang/
>
> Regards,
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Mickaël Rémond <>
> Date: March 4, 2007 4:20:59 AM CST
> To: Joe Armstrong <>
> Cc: Erlang <>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Programming Erlang on Pragmatic  
> Bookshelf
>
>
> Hello Joe,
>
> Le 3 mars 07 à 14:58, Joe Armstrong a écrit :
>
>> Yes
>>
>> It was supposed to be announced next Tuesday but ...
>
> Yes it seems that the news has spread quickly.
> An interesting blog post is here:
>
> http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/03/concurrent_prog_1.html
>
> It compares trend on Ruby and Erlang visit on the main websites.
> Ruby is currently going down and Erlang is rising.
> I think Pragmatic is onto something again :)
>
> By the way, the content which is already there is excellent and the  
> next chapters are very promising.
> Good job and good push for the Erlang community :)
>
> -- 
> Mickaël Rémond
>  http://www.process-one.net/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> 
> http://www.erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions

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