Erlang is getting too big
Mon Oct 13 15:51:15 CEST 2003
What an excellent discussion topic
for the after beer session at the coming
Erlang/OTP User Conference !
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Armstrong" <joe@REDACTED>
To: "Sean Hinde" <sean.hinde@REDACTED>
Cc: "Erlang Questions" <erlang-questions@REDACTED>
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Erlang is getting too big
> > Hi,
> > An observation from the trenches.
> > There are huge problems out in the real world getting companies (or
> > even other departments) to adopt Erlang. One of the arguments in favour
> > of Erlang has been that it is a "small" language so the overhead of
> > learning it and, vastly more important, supporting the applications
> > written in it is small.
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Sean Hinde wrote:
> > This is no longer the case, and from what I see on the mailing list and
> > in conferences there is a strong push towards adding more obfuscation
> > to an already large and (for C++ types) confusing language.
> I think there is a lot of talk here but not much action :-)
> Sure there is a lot of talk about things that would be nice, but
> this does not mean to say that the language is growing in an
> incontrollable manner - I have ofter argued that "If we add something"
> we should "take something out" and I think this is still and always
> the case.
> IMHO Erlang is perceived as being large because the distribution
> keeps growing in size - this is because the language and the
> applications are not distributed separately - so it becomes very
> difficult to distinguished exactly "what is Erlang".
> I would very much like to see the distribution split as follows:
> 1) "The language" + the *minimal set of libraries necessary to
> compile and run a simple application.
> 2) A set of applications
> - o -
> Now 1) is (roughly) the compiler, the run-time system + *half* of
> the modules in stdlib and kernel. This is not large. My earlier
> stand-alone Erlang sytems achieved 1) in less than 1.44 MBytes.
> 2) Is potentially huge
> - o -
> The Erlang OTP system is actually three things
> - The language
> - OTP
> - A number of applications
> But the boundaries are not clearly visible.
> I think it would greatly improve things if we could release the
> basic language stuff, OTP and the applications separately - so that the"
> distinctions become clearer.
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